People are deliberately ruining the story for others

[Thayos]

Remove the tome incentive and who is even going to run that dungeon other than the people who need it?

I already addressed this.

When the main scenario roulette was first added, people weren't doing it because of the cutscenes -- and when people did do it, there was massive drama over people skipping cutscenes. So SE responded by increasing the size of the tome reward to give people an incentive to do this and be patient.

People have small memories and big needs though.

Also, as I've said multiple times, I don't even remember the cutscenes from those dungeons. They certainly didn't stick with me. Please stop assuming every new player is going to treasure and cherish these cutscenes because I guarantee the majority will have forgotten them when they reach Heavensward.

Please stop using your misguided assumptions as justification for being a D-canoe to new players.

Here's an idea.... why not ask the new player if he'd be OK with watching cutscenes later in the Inn room? If the new player would rather watch them live, then be like, "OK, that's fine. You're not like me, but that's common sense... not everyone is like me." Or, if the new player is cool with that, be like, "SLAYER!!! Let's rock!"

[WinterLuna]

I already addressed this.

When the main scenario roulette was first added, people weren't doing it because of the cutscenes -- and when people did do it, there was massive drama over people skipping cutscenes. So SE responded by increasing the size of the tome reward to give people an incentive to do this and be patient.

People have small memories and big needs though.

Yet some players have said no amount of tomes is going to make them run that roulette if they have to twiddle their thumbs every 5 minutes while someone watches a cutscene.

Here's an idea.... why not ask the new player if he'd be OK with watching cutscenes later in the Inn room? If the new player would rather watch them live, then be like, "OK, that's fine. You're not like me, but that's common sense... not everyone is like me." Or, if the new player is cool with that, be like, "SLAYER!!! Let's rock!"

That's rich, because I must have stated in this thread around 3 times that I already let players watch the cutscenes. The whole reason I'm arguing this thread is because it will do more harm than good to new players.

People have small memories and big needs though.

[Terribad]

intended impact of the storyline.

Again, once Square decided to slap "MMO" on the title, it became that and majority of MMO players don't care about the story line. YOU are the one that isn't getting their way, so instead of complaining about it, why not come up with solutions for it? Most of the people that runs those MSQ roulettes don't stop to watch cut-scenes, if what you wanted came true (People that don't care about CS stopped running it) you wouldn't even be able to enter the dungeon. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

So either create your own solution or stop expecting randos to play how YOU want them to play.

[Thayos]

That's rich, because I must have stated in this thread around 3 times that I already let players watch the cutscenes. The whole reason I'm arguing this thread is because it will do more harm than good to new players.

In that case, good for you! My beef isn't with your kind.

[Ashkendor]

But why even do the main scenario roulette unless you have time to let new players watch cutscenes?

Seriously, it's so dang easy to get tomes in this game, do you REALLY need to spam that roulette too? Based on my experiences in the main story roulette, a large number of veteran players are totally cool with letting newbies watch cutscenes... so if you don't want to watch cutscenes, why risk ruining anyone's good time? Just stay out of it. That roulette isn't meant for you!

Because 120 poetics + a potential 100 poetics bonus is pretty appealing. Add to that the fact that you can run it on any level 50+ class so you can do double duty by getting exp while you get your tomes and it's like candy for completionists.

In a week from now, you won't remember a single detail about that Prea run. But a new player who is allowed to watch the cutscenes as intended will gain a memory that will last for as long as he plays the game -- or longer. Are your extra few tomes really worth ruining that?

I never stop new people from watching the cutscenes. I have been in a few parties where the majority of people wanted to let the new person watch the cutscene, and the rest of us just sat around and BS'ed while we waited. I've been in far more parties where the newbies are told at the beginning that they can watch the cutscenes if they wish but they will probably miss the boss fights.

Because all of us veterans are so overgeared -- and because everything in the duty finder is so easily beaten -- I don't think newer players have much incentive or reason to find friends/linkshells/FCs at the lower levels. But that's just my theory.

I dunno, I feel that newbies should be encouraged to acclimate themselves early on and learn to talk to people and make friends ingame. That's why when I run into newer players while leveling or some such, I chat with them and if they seem to be okay with it, I make sure to add them as a friend if they aren't already in my FC or a linkshell I'm in. It's not much of a time investment for me as they don't usually send a tell unless they have questions, but I feel it's an important thing to actually have a tangible point of contact, a name that you can come back to that you know belongs to someone that's willing to help you out. It's a way to kind of nudge them toward using that friend list on their own with people they meet in the open world doing FATEs or hunts or whatever.

[NegativeCreep]

That's the reason roulettes were added to the game in the first place, to ensure that dungeons continue getting run regularly so that new players get a chance to do them. It's also (and even more blatantly) the reason having a first time player in your party means you get even more tomes as a reward for helping them.

So basically you're confirming everything I just said. But tell me, how many times would you run CM and PT a week to help and be supportive of new players? Including a full clear and watching every cutscene if there was no tomes attached? My guess is zero. There is nothing to support in those dungeons or learn because they will never be fixed to make them difficult again. So back to my point, if one person wants to watch all 30 plus minutes of cutscenes then that's fine. But I am not going to make myself and six other people wait for ONE person. It's not like they are not going to run them a hundred times over.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I love watching cutscenes. I just don't love watching someone else watch cutscenes.

You can make "whats happening" as you walk through the dungeon and kill things. It makes it more immersive anyways.

[Niwashi]

Once Square decided to slap "MMO" on the title things changed it's not a single player anymore, you're going to have a lot of non FF players here that only enjoy the mmo part. The obvious solution is to simply do the "majority rules" with each dungeon. That's only fair, if most people want to watch a cut scene, either wait or drop out. If you're the only one that wants to watch a cut-scene either watch it in the inn or drop out.

If you're going to party with other players, then you need to make sure that all players in the group get what they're there for. That's what being multi-player is all about, working together. If everybody has the same goal, then you can go directly for that goal. If different members have different goals, then you go for each of them until everybody's goals are met.

If the only goal anybody has is to reach the end and get their completion rewards, then a speedrun works fine. If you've got 1 person who is in a dungeon to level up and wants every bit of XP available, while another person is trying to see the story, and another person is there for loot, and another is just there for the completion reward, then you go through the entire dungeon, watching any cutscenes involved for the story driven player, killing every mob for the XP driven player, looting every chest for the loot driven player and you'll eventually reach the end for the rewards driven player. That way, everyone gets what they're there for. It has nothing to do with numbers or which side is the majority. That's irrelevant. It's about reaching *everybody's* goals. And yes, that may take more time than just going directly for your own, but that's what teamwork is about. If you don't want to work on everybody else's goals, then stick to single player games or single player content in multi-player games.

The other way to focus on your own goals, while still having a multi-player element to the game, is to make sure you don't end up in a party with others who may have different goals. If you want a speedrun, form a party with like-minded players so you know none of them want anything else there. If you do a random party in DF (including any roulettes), then accept that other players might have different goals, and the only way you can consider the run successful is if you complete their goals too, even if it's for only 1 other player.

If you don't want to form a party of like-minded players, and instead are more interested in the rewards roulette gives you for going with a random group, then suck it up and accept that you're in a random group and can't run towards your own goals exclusively. It may take extra time to meet other goals you don't even share, but that's what you signed up for. Don't be a douche bag and ruin other people's game just because of it.

[Duuude007]

I say this every time a topic like this pops up but I'll say it again. For Castrum and Praetorium, add an extra checkbox option that allows players to voluntarily accept a variant of the dungeons where party members are locked from progressing while cutscenes are in play.

It already exists. Its called Party finder- you can set rules such as "no cutscene skipping" You set the rules, with that comes expectations. There is no good reason to make a core game setting that disables freedom of progression when the window of its applicability is so narrow.

In order to coerce high-level players into continuing to accept such lengthy runs, double if not triple the tome reward for players who accept such terms. That way, everyone knows what they are getting into. Speed runs are still possible for anyone unwilling to dedicate that much time to MSQ:R, long runs are still easily populated by people interested in the heightened efficiency of Reward vs. Time Invested.

Uh, that will have the reverse effect. In fact, it already has been adjusted in a similar fashion, and DID have the reverse effect... So they ultimately went back to the lower, more balanced, tome values.
2, 3? how about 10 times-- See how aggressively people will spam the dungeon and make use of the tome fountain for personal profit.

Forcing the majority to do something other than what the majority wants to do, creates a boycott of said content. Good luck with the grand return of pre-DF queues when that day arrives.

TLDR: if you are a minority member not getting what you think you deserve, find a group of willing participants so that you are no longer queueing as part of a minority. You can find 4 like-minded people, right? Right?

[Kaurie]

You can make "whats happening" as you walk through the dungeon and kill things. It makes it more immersive anyways.

I personally dislike it when games do this. I find I am too focused on gameplay and less focused on the story, and consequently miss out on the story.