People are deliberately ruining the story for others

[Terribad]

Didn't think this would still be an issue, everyone needs to stop with this "but me me me".

Once Square decided to slap "MMO" on the title things changed it's not a single player anymore, you're going to have a lot of non FF players here that only enjoy the mmo part. The obvious solution is to simply do the "majority rules" with each dungeon. That's only fair, if most people want to watch a cut scene, either wait or drop out. If you're the only one that wants to watch a cut-scene either watch it in the inn or drop out.

[Ashkendor]

If you agree to do something for a reward, then you can't turn around and say you shouldn't have to do that something, but just get the reward without it.

But they are doing what they agreed to do - running the dungeon. Main Scenario Roulette does not have a warning when you sign up that you must watch the cutscenes or you must wait for any new people to watch the cutscenes before you progress. The dungeon allows you to move forward, so people are going to move forward. Honestly, I still advocate the unsynced run with a couple of level 60 friends that are willing to let you watch the cutscenes as the best way to complete these. You don't have to deal with Duty Finder, so you don't have to deal with the inevitable compromise with 7 random people that have their own agendas.

When you have a job, you're expected to actually do the work associated with that job. That's what you're getting paid for. When you run main scenario roulette (or leveling roulette, or whatever), you're expected to actually do the full run of that roulette. That's what you're getting a tome reward for.

You're getting the tome reward for completing the dungeon, period. The bonus tomes can be easily justified either way - either you are rewarded for taking extra time, or you are rewarded for completing the dungeon's objectives while short a person. There is no "you must complete it this way" clause that specifies that you have to kill everything or watch all of the cutscenes. If SE had wanted that from the start, they could've easily designed it that way. The Main Scenario Roulette was implemented so that those dungeons see enough traffic for new people to get into them and complete them. In that sense, they are working as intended. The problem is, the intention doesn't hold up to the test of time. The blame is solely on SE for the design flaws in these dungeons and at this point all we can really do is be glad they haven't repeated their mistakes and work around them the best we can.

Whether you want to do a full run or not, you already agreed to by queuing for the dungeon or roulette. It's too late to decide you won't once you get there.

No, actually, you didn't. You agreed to complete the dungeon (and even that is up in the air since you can simply leave and eat your 30 minute penalty if you don't like what you landed in). As mentioned earlier in this post, with Duty Finder being what it is, there's going to be some degree of compromise to be had depending on the group you land in. Land in a group of 7 new people watching cutscenes? Welp, better suck it up and get ready to either tab out for some cat videos or enjoy your 30 minute penalty. Land in a group of speed runners ready to sanic stomp it into the floor? Better tie your running shoes. It's just as selfish for a single newbie to ask 7 veterans to wait around while they watch cutscenes as it is for a single veteran to ask 7 newbies to skip them.

[Thayos]

Sorry, but are you telling me that because I que for the MSQ roulette that I am doing so because I want to be supportive of new players? Uh no, I'm queing to get my tomes. As simple as that.

As another poster already pointed out, the reason this is part of the roulette is to be of service to new players. Tome rewards were increased in the story roulette because, at first, people weren't doing the roulette because of the lengthy cutscene times.

So, yes... the current rewards literally account for the opportunity cost of people chilling out and not being D-canoes.

Don't you have more than enough other roulettes to farm your tomes without ruining the storyline for new players, the game's lifeblood?

[WinterLuna]

The obvious solution is to simply do the "majority rules" with each dungeon. That's only fair, if most people want to watch a cut scene, either wait or drop out. If you're the only one that wants to watch a cut-scene either watch it in the inn or drop out.

Unfortunately this doesn't work because even if 7 people want to run the dungeon quickly, they're still expected to kiss the butt of the new player. Don't get me wrong, I've said countless times on here that I'm willing to help, I'm a Mentor, and I'd let people watch the cutscenes. But this whole attitude of "I'm new and I'm giving you tomes and you should let me do what I want because I'm a new player" is just a joke. The tomes are incentive to run the dungeon and that alone, you are not entitled to anything because you are new and older players are not obligated to stand there and let you watch every cutscene if they don't want to.

As another poster already pointed out, the reason this is part of the roulette is to be of service to new players.

Again, the tome reward is for queuing for the dungeon and completing it alone. Nowhere does it state before queuing that you have to cater to new players in any way.Queuing for the dungeon is the service in itself.

[Terribad]

But this whole attitude of "I'm new and I'm giving you tomes and you should let me do what I want because I'm a new player"

I know what you mean, which is why I addressed both sides, it's funny that new people act that way when the old people re running it are the main reason they're even able to do the dungeon.

Square really messed up when they decided to make a MMO but design it at the core like a single player. Both parties just need to realize not everything will be their way.

Sidenote: Does no one ask their LS/FC/Friends/use PF any more? Like that's one of the beauties of MMOs, you can ask for help ya know? It's not going to kill you to be sociable.

[Thayos]

But why even do the main scenario roulette unless you have time to let new players watch cutscenes?

Seriously, it's so dang easy to get tomes in this game, do you REALLY need to spam that roulette too? Based on my experiences in the main story roulette, a large number of veteran players are totally cool with letting newbies watch cutscenes... so if you don't want to watch cutscenes, why risk ruining anyone's good time? Just stay out of it. That roulette isn't meant for you!

In a week from now, you won't remember a single detail about that Prea run. But a new player who is allowed to watch the cutscenes as intended will gain a memory that will last for as long as he plays the game -- or longer. Are your extra few tomes really worth ruining that?

And by "you," I'm not talking at anyone specifically. But YOU know who you are!

Sidenote: Does no one ask their LS/FC/Friends/use PF any more? Like that's one of the beauties of MMOs, you can ask for help ya know? It's not going to kill you to be sociable.

Because all of us veterans are so overgeared -- and because everything in the duty finder is so easily beaten -- I don't think newer players have much incentive or reason to find friends/linkshells/FCs at the lower levels. But that's just my theory.

[Terribad]

But why even do the main scenario roulette unless you have time to let new players watch cutscenes?

Because people want tomes, when you add the tome system to a game and keep reusing it (one of the reasons why I hate tome systems) people are going to go the fastest route. Regardless of what the route was intended for. Besides when this game re-released this was still an issue, some people new and old don't want to watch cut scenes. No one is "ruining" anything, go watch it in the inn, ask for help, create your own pf, watch it on youtube. Options are out there.

[Skivvy]

snip

As far as I see it, the tomes bonus is the reward for giving quick access to MSQ dungeons. If not for the bonus, new players would be waiting hours for these fights as the content is so incredibly old and a waste of time outside of said bonus. Receiving a bonus does not mean you are now bound by some contract to give a full clear and watch ~30 minutes of CSs. Only requirement is that you clear the dungeon.

[Thayos]

No one is "ruining" anything, go watch it in the inn, ask for help, create your own pf, watch it on youtube.

You MUST know that this isn't the same as watching the storyline unfold, in the dungeon, as it's meant to... in proper sequence and setting the tone for the dungeon and the fights.

What you're proposing is like watching some parts of a movie, and then later watching the other parts that you didn't watch before, but without any context for anything. That's totally not the same and, yes, you are ruining the intended impact of the storyline. Unquestionably.

[WinterLuna]

In a week from now, you won't remember a single detail about that Prea run. But a new player who is allowed to watch the cutscenes as intended will gain a memory that will last for as long as he plays the game -- or longer. Are your extra few tomes really worth ruining that?

Remove the tome incentive and who is even going to run that dungeon other than the people who need it? This is just common sense. And to the comment about staying out of the roulette - most people don't even DO that roulette in the first place. Why do you think those dungeons take so long to pop? Do you really want to remove the little amount of people who queue it?

Also, as I've said multiple times, I don't even remember the cutscenes from those dungeons. They certainly didn't stick with me. Please stop assuming every new player is going to treasure and cherish these cutscenes because I guarantee the majority will have forgotten them when they reach Heavensward.