DRG should have a special quest called "how to use heavy thrust"

[rjspencer4]

Not only DRG, all jobs should have this kind of tutorial.

MNK: Maintaining Twin Snakes
MCH: Maintaining Hot Shot
BLM: Maintaning Astral fire/ umbral Ice
WAR: Maintaining Storm path

And the list goes on

They could add to the hall of the beginner and provide new challenges when you learn crucial skills

[Tanro]

People like you are what's wrong with this game. Stuck up elitist that think they can force people to do things their way. I swear you snobs kick people for the stupidest most trivial crap

No idiots like you, are what is wrong with any game. Learn to play. Don't be bad, you won't get kicked. Wanna play bad, get in a bad guild, with your bad friends, and run dungeons with them. See how well it goes when everyone in the party is playing their job/class so terribly. Now at a lower level it probably wont matter too much. But at cap, you will be struggling to finish them.

[Tanathya]

No idiots like you, are what is wrong with any game. Learn to play. Don't be bad, you won't get kicked. Wanna play bad, get in a bad guild, with your bad friends, and run dungeons with them. See how well it goes when everyone in the party is playing their job/class so terribly. Now at a lower level it probably wont matter too much. But at cap, you will be struggling to finish them.

Sad truth is, leveling dungeons are harder than capped ones. But yeah, you got it right, if someone wants to be bad, form your own PF and be as bad as you want to be.

[Garotte14]

So, the argument appears to be:

1) I know how to play my class and I expect every one else to play their class to the same level of perfection

2) I am constantly disappointed with the <insert insult here> of players who don't play to my expectations

3) Such players deserve to be kicked because they're wasting my precious, precious time

4) If you don't want to treat this game as a full-time job, just quit already.

That about right?

[As an aside, I play dragoon and HT leads each and every sequence for its 24 second life.]

Umm.......What?

That is not at all what the argument is. You don't read well, or your comprehension is too low. Or maybe you just perceive things in whatever way you'd like to, so you can troll and "attempt" to make a point, failing miserably. No one ever said anything about perfection, so you're just adding fluff to your point because you think you're smart, or maybe just because you believe so highly in your point, that you fail to see the actual problem.

Fact of the matter is, you can craft, gather, do Fates, glamour, housing, earn gil, play mini games in the Gold Saucer, choco racing, triple triad, LoV, and many other things that are great for solo play. But when you are playing an MMO, guess what? You have to play with other ppl. Our time is not in any way more precious than anyone else's, but if a person is playing their job incorrectly, there's a very good chance they are uncomfortable or inexperienced at the job. But if they refuse to take any criticism or advice and runs their mouth with snark comments about "Don't tell me how to play my job," or just straight up ignore you, then yes, that person deserves to be kicked. Plain and Simple.

I don't care if a dungeon run takes 20 minutes or an hour honestly. If I go into a dungeon as a dps for instance, and tank says, "I'm new." I check their gear and see how they're fairing. If after the first couple of pulls things aren't going well, I'll mention, "You should pull with shield lob, and then flash a few times before you start your combo, and then cycle your combos through the mobs because you're losing hate." Alot of times, I get a "thanks for the advice" and as we press on the dungeon, things may be slow and a little rocky, but the person is willing to learn and trying to get better. This is exactly how it should be.

But If I say the same thing, and the person is snarky, defensive, refusing to listen, poor attitude, then that person is now wasting the rest of the party's time. And I will kick you. No ifs, ands or buts. If a person can't take advice and only wants to play their way, at their speed, at their skill level, then they are in the wrong genre of gaming. When working in a random team, everyone needs to adapt. Those that refuse to change are the ones too stubborn to realize that we're trying to help. I will help anyone that asks for any advice. In fact I spent weeks writing a guide to help any and all Black Mages, and I make myself available to help anyone that needs it.

By your comments, you are the exact type of person this thread is talking about. Can't take advice, can't take criticism, believes everyone that offers a helping hand is an elitist, and decides they're going to continue to do what they want out of spite. Sorry to say it, but you are the problem.

[rockint]

Bads can form their own groups too so they don't get kicked. Why is it that they're the victims here and not the rest of us who actually care and try hard?

They're not the victims, but they're also not the ones on here making demands on how other people play in their group. No matter if you're good or bad, if have a specific expectation out of who you're playing with, then form the group yourself.

[Tanathya]

They're not the victims, but they're also not the ones on here making demands on how other people play in their group. No matter if you're good or bad, if have a specific expectation out of who you're playing with, then form the group yourself.

Because they don't care. If they find someone bad they can't complain or just don't care because they're equally as bad, or worse, and if they find someone who tries they're obviously not gonna complain either. So no, they should be the ones forming groups if they want to play however they feel like even if that goes against the party's interest.

[RiceisNice]

They're not the victims, but they're also not the ones on here making demands on how other people play in their group. No matter if you're good or bad, if have a specific expectation out of who you're playing with, then form the group yourself.

Only one group in this conext is being detrimental to the party, though. There's the bare expectation of knowing your basic job mechanics that should at least be met in party play, otherwise you're honestly just a liability for that party slot.

[Tanathya]

Only one group in this conext is being detrimental to the party, though. There's the bare expectation of knowing your basic job mechanics that should at least be met in party play, otherwise you're honestly just a liability for that party slot.

What is beyond me are these people who defend bad play, or excuse it at the very least. No one, absolutely no one here is being an elitist or making insane demands. Is expecting a lv30+ player to know the basics that demanding? Let alone a lv50+ one. We are all complaining about people not trying.

[Eecka]

They're not the victims, but they're also not the ones on here making demands on how other people play in their group. No matter if you're good or bad, if have a specific expectation out of who you're playing with, then form the group yourself.

So you're absolutely fine if I run a dungeon with you as a full dps WHM, or perhaps as a PLD but RPing an old, tired guy, and using only auto attacks as the result?

When you're joining group content, it should be expected of you to at least TRY do the job you queued as, otherwise you have no place being there. If you want to "play in your own way" that seriously cripples your effectiveness, you're free to do so, but do it in solo content and don't drag others down in your experiments.

[JackFross]

There was actually one time back in the deadzone of 2.5 where a few friends and I decided to do T13 in DF for fun. We do a few pulls and the pushes at the end of phase 1 are a full 20-30s short of where they should be. People (myself included) start noticing that this DRG in the party doing less dps than the tanks (in full i130 gear). Being a DRG main, I checked out the skill rotation he was doing and asked him point blank if he even knew how to play the Job.

He wasn't using Heavy Thrust or Phlebotomize - he wasn't even completing combos properly. His response was that he didn't really have the rotation down yet - he was still learning the job.

We vote kicked him from the group, and got a replacement.


Granted, this isn't a dungeon, but the fact remains no less valid in any other situation. Endgame content is not the time to learn how to play your Job. You should not be playing a Job in any content at 60 without knowing the basics, at least. If you seriously think that's too much to ask, then just kindly stay out of my parties, because I'm not going to carry someone through content for free, when they're too lazy to sit down for five minutes and either figure out the basics or ask someone who mains the Job what to do.

So, no. I don't think it's too much to ask for a level 50+ Dragoon to know to use Heavy Thrust in any dungeon he's in.
I don't think it's too much to expect a BLM/THM to be casting Fire II on 3 or more enemies - or, you know, casting fire spells at all.
It's not too much to wish that every DRK sync'd higher than 30 will be using Darkside during every pull.

And I find it ridiculous that people are arguing that we're elitist for saying so.