"Glamour is the End Game"...What do you feel when you hear that?

[Kosmos992k]

It's not drastic.

I think we are thinking about two different aspects. I'm quite sure that SE could rework gear to eliminate or drastically slow vertical progression. I also have no doubt that many players including both of us would enjoy the opportunity for some horizontal gear progression. However, I don't think that the player population would be in complete agreement, a significant portion of the players wpuld likely be upset at the apparent end of vertical gear progression. That is why I don't think they could make such a drastic change in course.

[Dajinn]

The real problem with this game and why most content is obsolete and why glamor is the true end game is the actual lack of progression you get from anything besides from the current content patch and with the Savage implementation.

Literally every patch is a reset with uncapped tomestones, a new primal, and 4 new normal/savage bosses. And useless 4 mans.
So the first thing is all of the content before the current patch is basically useless to the point where no one runs it for progression or for gear, only for vain mount drops(which is fine if you care about that stuff, just calling it what it is). So it leaves out any sense of progression you -could- be getting from "mid-core" content by actually having to do it by gearing up and going through content that would be relevant if it weren't for "content resets" every major patch.

We actually kind of saw this "fail" with Bismarck Ex being pretty much nothing but a block for Ravana Ex, since 180 gear was already in the game, why bother running it?

The next problem is the implementation of the "Savage" difficult for the special try-hard snowflakes this game seems to attract. Some will get mad at that statement but that's pretty much why we got Savage at all for SCoB.

The 3 binding coils of bahamut were already challenging enough in normal mode for most players that it actually required coordination, statics, and practice. Unlike the faceroll 24 mans and 8 man "normal"(pfft, aka, "Story")mode Alexander "raids"(aka super casual version of LFR).

The "Savage" mode should go back from being the only sensible means of progression this game offers(at this point in Heavensward) to being the mode that the special try-hard snowflakes do once they've already cleared everything and want a ridiculous challenge(if they have nothing else to do and want special titles and world firsts) for only the absolute top-tier teams.

After that, the normal versions of Alexander Gordias and Midas should be buffed up to 1st and 2nd coil difficulty standards, with the last wing of Alexander being on par with final coil standards. The whole thing of them being faceroll-tier for "story" and "casual" purposes just needs to be dropped, if players want to see the Alexander story, which isn't even the actual main-scenario and is technically a side quest, they should be willing to put in the time to clear the raids.

Next, there should be a major revision to vendor gear and the tomestone system(not a revision to the gear itself just the means of attainment) that actually forces players to progress through 'older' but still relevant content to be able to meet gear checks for newer raids. This is similar to the raid progression in the original WoW, where, aside from garbage itemization in the game's early state, you raided up from tiers 1 to 3, progressing through MC and becoming adequately geared for BWL, then becoming adequately geared for new 20 mans and AQ40, and so on. Say what you will about how extremely casual the raid process has become these days for both FFXIV and WoW but there's no doubt it kept content relevant.

So for example, to even think about stepping into Alexander Midas you would need a raid team adequately geared from doing Gordias which isn't out of the question at ALL considering how long Gordias was available before Midas launched. And to do Sephirot Ex comfortably to get the 220 weapon to progress easier through Midas you should have had to have done Gordias multiple times with a consistent static to gear up and gotten the 210 weapon from A4S.

Unfortunately the "natural" progression of PvE content is butchered with gear vendors and the tomestone system. I'm not saying they should be removed but they're a huge part of why each launch of an expansion and patch this game has huge chunks of content that literally just become "glamour runs". At this time I don't have any suggestions on how to revamp gear vendors and tomestones but again I feel like they contribute to the problem and maybe crafted gear to some extent.

Lastly, dungeons also need a gear revamp to make them relevant for purposes besides daily roulettes. And if Savage stopped dropping loot obviously some gear shuffling would need to take place.

Anyway, that's just my two cents.

[Kosmos992k]

*snip*Anyway, that's just my two cents.

I think you posted that before and it was no less disagreeable then either. Every time someone describes older dungeons and pointless, trash, worthless, dead or whatever, I can't help wondering when this changed from being a game played for fun, into a treadmill of progression, always progression. The simple fact is that you stated yourself you and those of a similar opinion will not run anything unless there is some form of progression in it for you. That's fine, but really, there can't be progression in everything in a game this large. Aside from that, the point of the game is to play and have fun, not work and progress in an efficient manner. So, please do not try to turn the game we have into a regimented progression treadmill, let it be what it is, a beautiful, fun and social game that people enjoy playing.

[Galactimus]

I've logged in everyday since the game came out and completed all relevant content before each new patch.

However, I've been wearing the same Glamour since Second Coil came out.



With the exception of the sword and shield nothing about my glamour has changed for years now. Everything released since then has been purple and gold nightmares, tank dresses, tank skirts, tank robes, and steampunk failures. If glamour is the true end game then I'm still waiting for that content to be released for male Tanks.

[Kaurie]

I think we are thinking about two different aspects. I'm quite sure that SE could rework gear to eliminate or drastically slow vertical progression. I also have no doubt that many players including both of us would enjoy the opportunity for some horizontal gear progression. However, I don't think that the player population would be in complete agreement, a significant portion of the players wpuld likely be upset at the apparent end of vertical gear progression. That is why I don't think they could make such a drastic change in course.

This is very true. One of the main reasons I am here instead of Guild Wars 2 is due to vertical progression. That and better end-game & trinity.

[Iagainsti]

This is very true. One of the main reasons I am here instead of Guild Wars 2 is due to vertical progression. That and better end-game & trinity.

Totally; While I did enjoy the gearing and the system in FFXI, with the system of FFXIV being based more on Skill and Job Actions and your gear just multiplies the effect, a horizontal system would be boring.
I gave up trying to stay progression gear back during Second Coil, and quite enjoy the fact today that I can play 10-12 hours tops a week, mostly PVP, and still stay relevantly geared for any raids my FC needs a tank, no matter the patch.

[Alistaire]

People say it because of a combination of the facts that the game's itemization system is so linear and content gets outdated so quickly that the only lasting goals or real point of character customization is glamour at this point.

It's sad but true.

Maybe it'll change in 3.2+ but meh.

This is almost true; but "lasting goal" is kind of missing the point. The only real goal in this game is beating the content while the content is difficult. The real fun and real challenge of the game are from beating content before you overgear it and before they nerf it. Don't even need "world firsts", beat stuff at your own pace depending on the time you can commit to the game. I raid somethin like 4-6 hours a week, less than some do in a day; I'll never get world firsts but the raid content is still going to be the majority of what endgame really is.

I have some good glamours like a lot of people and have fun doing it, but I certainly wouldn't be paying a subscription if that's all there was to it.

[Critical-Limit]

Some people in this thread have the worst case scenario for horizontal progression as if that's the only way horizontal progression works.

Horizontal progression exists in ffxiv in some ways.

Leveling up a job is horizontal progression to an extent. As leveling a job will never become straight up obsolete.

Glamour is horizontal progression. May get bored of clothes and change but sometimes you like to go back to an old outfit.

[RhaegarFFXIFenrir]

When I hear that I say: truth.

[Dzian]

It is true. I love challenges and difficult contents but the short life span of rewards paired with the short term difficulty. just isn't worth doing it.

not really worth getting the gear cos in a month or so it'll be obsolete and useless for everything but glamour.
not really worth doing the newest content when in a month or so it'll be easier..

if the rewards had a better lifespan and the difficulty remained at a static level then i'd be so much more inclined to participate in the latest and greatest challenging contents. but when people will inevitably be facerolling there way to titles / gears you bust your guts off for. it massively undermines your hard work / effort.

So in the end all there really is.... is glamour.