Why do people want Blue Mage in this game?

[Warlyx]

A Summoner's skills do come from their job quests, but they still have the trial requirements that no other job has. That the level 30 Summoner quest requires completion of the Ifrit trial became irrelevant once the rule changed to require the later Slyph Management quest for all level 30 job quests, so now to unlock any job you have to have fought Ifrit. However, the fact that the level 35 Summoner quest requires completion of the Titan trial and the level 45 one requires completion of the Garuda trial are requirements that no other job has.

If SE can add those extra requirements that are just for Summoner because they're specifically tied to how Summoner works, then they could add dungeon requirements to Blue Mage if they decide that would fit with how Blue Mage works.

ahh i know what u mean now....and yeah u were right....smn need to complete the 4 man trials in order to being able to do job quests

[Duelle]

Really? I'd think dungeons would make ideal places for Blue Mages to gain skills. As you've pointed out yourself, they're often the places with the most good mob skills in use. The part I still don't get is why you seem to think that's a bad thing.

You say this now, but knowing people the way I know them, this is more likely:

BLU: Hey Duelle, let me tank the next giant Beetle so I can learn Rhyno Attack from it.

Me: Erm...you're a mage, with a mage-level HP bar. You're gonna get 3 shot...

WHM: Just hurry i wanna get thise over with.

Other DPS: I want my tomez nao!!!!!!

Bickering ensues, etc, etc.

A Summoner's skills do come from their job quests, but they still have the trial requirements that no other job has. That the level 30 Summoner quest requires completion of the Ifrit trial became irrelevant once the rule changed to require the later Slyph Management quest for all level 30 job quests, so now to unlock any job you have to have fought Ifrit. However, the fact that the level 35 Summoner quest requires completion of the Titan trial and the level 45 one requires completion of the Garuda trial are requirements that no other job has.

If SE can add those extra requirements that are just for Summoner because they're specifically tied to how Summoner works, then they could add dungeon requirements to Blue Mage if they decide that would fit with how Blue Mage works.

I see what you're getting at, but that's apples and oranges. Summoners are a special case given where their abilities and power come from. They still follow the 18-ability rule (because it's a job built atop Arcanist), and their job abilities outside of Summon III are still following the design paradigms set for every job.

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I think the discussion hasn't really set any sort of rules in particular. For example, I'm assuming BLU will be unlocked as a lv30 job the way it went for DRK, MCH and AST. That means that the unlock quest will likely involve you equipping the Soul of the Blue Mage and getting a quest tuned for a lv30 BLU to complete and unlock your first job ability. As we saw in unlocking the Heavensward jobs, you equip the crystal and all of a sudden you get 30 levels worth of abilities. That's where the problem stems from for me, and my preferred solution is having the BLU start out with abilities learned, but in a weak/incomplete stage. Strong enough to clear the unlock quest but a far cry from ideal should the BLU want to afterwards queue for duty finder.

My timeline would go as follows:

1) Unlock quest: Circumstances cause you to equip the BLU job crystal.
2a) My suggestion: You gain the standard faire of abilities a lv30 job would have. These abilities are weak but enough to get you through the quest, after which you'd have to go and kill the prescribed number of mobs to get yourself caught up.
2b) Alternative suggestion: You gain only the very basics (following my write up, this would mean you only have Magic Missile, Efflux, Magus Fist and Lancet upon equipping the BLU crystal) and the unlock quest itself has you killing a bunch of different mob types to populate the "empty" 1-30 ability slots.
3) The unlock quests ends with you fighting an Archaeodaemon that after defeating you absorb to learn you first Greater Blue Magic spell, Lifebreak.

[Morningstar1337]

Since they would probably want to make the Blue Mage something of their own design if integrated I can totally see them using the Primals attacks abilities as the BLU's main spells/weaponskills because that's just how they roll. Could probably look at the recent Raubahn fight for some pointers. Even if personally it was basically human Ifrit and a one trick pony battle.

Raubahn's very name being a homage to the Blue Mage NPC of XI.

That might cause Ire from SMN mains as they already have access to Primal attacks, weaker versions at that.

Really? I'd think dungeons would make ideal places for Blue Mages to gain skills. As you've pointed out yourself, they're often the places with the most good mob skills in use. The part I still don't get is why you seem to think that's a bad thing.

Think of how Dungeons work with Party Composition. You have 2 DPS, a Healer an a Tank. The latter is meant to be a distraction for the mobs because they can take the damage that can 2HKO everyone else.

Suppose that BLUs are forced to get hit by the attacks to learn it. This would mean two things. The first is that they have to risk Life and Limb just to get say, Bad Breath (The very same Attack that slaps all the worse debuffs at its victims at once), the second is that BLU (perhaps appropriately enought given the role color) becomes a Tank, which would be just as polarizing as DRK being a Tank (Though admittedly, I would like to see a Mage Tank and RDM and BLM being tanks would alleviate the issues of the broad access to offensive and defensive/healing moves such as White Wind and Cure II)

EDIT: and Duelle himself made his point. Guess I might as well ask him if a BLU tank is possible...

This point is moot when people bring up BLU on FFXI, which is an online game, and it's absolutely one of the best BLU versions ever made, if not the best.

This is Apples to Oranges though. XI AFAIK had horrid balancing issues that led to among other things, SAM and NIN swapping roles, where NIN became a tank and SAM became a DPS (or as close as possible given the apparent lack of influence form the Holy Trinity). Something this game seems to want to avoid (evidence being AST an DRG buffs, BLM AoE Nerfs and at the extreme end, The existence of Wanderer's Minuet). What works in IX would not easily work in XIV.

[Tanathya]

This is Apples to Oranges though. XI AFAIK had horrid balancing issues that led to among other things, SAM and NIN swapping roles, where NIN became a tank and SAM became a DPS (or as close as possible given the apparent lack of influence form the Holy Trinity). Something this game seems to want to avoid (evidence being AST an DRG buffs, BLM AoE Nerfs and at the extreme end, The existence of Wanderer's Minuet). What works in IX would not easily work in XIV.

It still is an MMO setting, so it is comparable. No one said it had to be the exact same, but they can get bits from there quite easily. In fact, the system to work around BLU spells there would work great here.

On the other hand, I personally rather face some balancing issues than having everything homogenized like we do here, but that has nothing to do with what I said about BLU.

[Transmigration]

Because it's cool

[Laerune]

Its a fan favourite. Unless they make Blue Mage unique and not butcher it like Summoner, I rather see another class being released.

[FallenArisen0990]

Blue Mage can learn all it's Blue Magic from Job Quests. But I honestly want Vampire more than Blue Mage.

Inb4VampiresdontexistinFF.

BLU could use all it's XI abilities to boost DMG, Speed, Next Spell is Free, Drain MP, Deal Additional DMG after Combo.

Could use the Pet Hotbar for Blue Magic combinations to make different effects when combined in a certain order.

There are options they could do to make it work.

[LineageRazor]

BLU: Hey Duelle, let me tank the next giant Beetle so I can learn Rhyno Attack from it.

Taking an attack directly isn't the only way Final Fantasy BLUs have learned their skills in the past. Quina got the abilities by eating monsters, for instance, and FFXI BLUs just had to be in the party when the attack was used, and then defeat the mob afterwards.

Additionally, while not a lot of mobs in this game have healing or buffing abilities, without the abiliy to control mobs (ala FFVII's Manipulate, or FFVI's Control), these skills would be out of a BLU's reach.

Most likely, BLUs will not need to be directly hit by a skill in order to learn it.

Its a fan favourite. Unless they make Blue Mage unique and not butcher it like Summoner, I rather see another class being released.

Dark Knight was a nother fan favorite, and yes, many believe that it was butchered by its incarnation in FFXIV. Yet there were no mass riots, or countless unsubscriptions. The game kept rollin' on, and contrary to what the doomsayers believed, a lot of people enjoy DRK. It's probably safe to say it's the most popular of the three jobs that were released with Heavensward.

The same will likely be true of BLU. It'll come. It'll disappoint a lot of people who had ironclad expectations. A few may even quit the game over it, but not nearly enough for SE - or anyone else, really - to care. Folks will enjoy the job for what it is in this game, not for what it failed to copy from another game.

[Tanathya]

Dark Knight was a nother fan favorite, and yes, many believe that it was butchered by its incarnation in FFXIV. Yet there were no mass riots, or countless unsubscriptions. The game kept rollin' on, and contrary to what the doomsayers believed, a lot of people enjoy DRK. It's probably safe to say it's the most popular of the three jobs that were released with Heavensward.

DRK was butchered the moment they took its signature moves, what made a DRK in the first place, out. Is it well designed? Yes. Is it fun to play? Of course. Does it feel like a DRK? No. Why? Because I can't do what they always could, so might as well call it something else and it will still be well designed, fun to play, would do the exact same it already does in XIV, but it wouldn't feel like a DRK because it wouldn't even share the name.

[RiceisNice]

Blue Mages always obtain skills differently than any other job because that's what makes them a Blue Mage. As for a skill requiring a dungeon, is it all that different than a skill requiring a trial? Summoners already have extra requirements than other jobs because they can't gain an Egi until they've defeated the associated primal. So if you're looking for all jobs to have the same requirements, that's not even the case now.

But their job quest does not require the trial itself as the objective. On top of that, the primals are part of the MSQ, while not necessarily all dungeons are part of the MSQ unless you want to tunnel abilities to those specific dungeons. I don't even feel the prereqisuites are that much of a problem because the MSQ requirements start to out level you (esp for garuda) that you'd probably unlock them first before getting to 35/45 respectively. And as I mentioned before, solo instances are fair game and the setting could be in said dungeon.

DRK was butchered the moment they took its signature moves, what made a DRK in the first place, out. Is it well designed? Yes. Is it fun to play? Of course. Does it feel like a DRK? No. Why? Because I can't do what they always could, so might as well call it something else and it will still be well designed, fun to play, would do the exact same it already does in XIV, but it wouldn't feel like a DRK because it wouldn't even share the name.

Depends on the player perspective. Some people feel that the current incarnation of BLM isn't true to tradition because they have no way to exploit the elemental wheel, as well as SMNS not dealing damage primarily from their egis (or having spectacular effects from the summons, or both). I feel that it captures the aesthetics of a DRK just fine through their animations, while at the same time giving them a distinct feel to their flow of combat through dorkside and mana.