Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

[smallbeach]

Guys i have a problem with my gear, this is week 4 coming and i'll be able to buy a A5S accessory, im also going to get my i230 weapon : http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...cter/10341236/

but i feel like all those accessory are total garbage, i dont went to lose my 1070 spellspeed because i know i'm gonna lose some extra f4 under leylines and others things.

So i was thinking, spellspeed is so good right now that i feel crafted gear (on accessory at least) will stay bis forever for the blackmage, any tought on this ?

thanks

[StouterTaru]

So i was thinking, spellspeed is so good right now that i feel crafted gear (on accessory at least) will stay bis forever for the blackmage, any tought on this ?

I did some rough figures over the weekend for stat weights. These numbers are fore pure turret ignoring CDs and rotation, 210 weapon.

To get a 1% damage increase:

• ~12 INT
• ~57-64 Spell Speed (decreases with higher spell speed)
• ~74 Det
• ~95 Crit

On accessories the trade-off of 240 vs 220 crafted is 10 INT for at most 60 secondaries. Unless you are overloaded with Accuracy, there will probably be a better 240 option.

[smallbeach]

problem i have with stats weight is that it's never rly true

higher your crit is, higher the value of crit is since u get both crit and crit dmg, so +20 crit in 800crit is stronger than +20crit in 500crit, from that it's realy hard to find a stat weight value (especialy with a drg in team)

also why does spell speed value decreases with higher spell speed ? i feel like the more you have the better it is, you can do fancy rotation, i can almost do 5 fire4 under leylines with selene buffs without casting fire


edit : i just made a final bis : http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/TAB9 any thought on that one ?

[StouterTaru]

problem i have with stats weight is that it's never rly true

higher your crit is, higher the value of crit is since u get both crit and crit dmg, so +20 crit in 800crit is stronger than +20crit in 500crit, from that it's realy hard to find a stat weight value (especialy with a drg in team)

also why does spell speed value decreases with higher spell speed ? i feel like the more you have the better it is, you can do fancy rotation, i can almost do 5 fire4 under leylines with selene buffs without casting fire

While crit boosts by more damage as a percentage of your base damage as you get higher, the marginal boost to damage is about the same.

Spell speed value doesn't decrease, the amount needed for a 1% increase to damage decreases; at 354 SS it takes about 65 SS for a 1% increase, at 1100 SS it only takes about 57 for a 1% increase.

[smallbeach]

What do you mean by base damage ? Damage before the multipliers like inteligence or determination ? I doubt it because my crits are approx 1.6 multiplier at 815 crit, it wouldn't be that high if that was only base damage

Also about spellspeed i did quick tests,

with 919spellspeed, my cast time is 2.74, with 108 extra spellspeed, my cast time is 2.69 =>>> thats -0.05sec and 1,86% increased castspeed

with 354 my cast time is 3.0, with 108 extra spellspeed, my cast time is 2.95, so -0.05 aswell but here we only get 1.7% inscreased castspeed

so the more spellspeed you have the better is the stat aswell

Also to compare differents bis option, i was wondering how you found out that 12int was 1% dmg? I agree with you that 58int is 1% dmg, that's exactly what i found, but for intel what you did, 5hour rotation on a dummy ?


let me know if i'm wrong somewhere

[StouterTaru]

What do you mean by base damage ? Damage before the multipliers like inteligence or determination ? I doubt it because my crits are approx 1.6 multiplier at 815 crit, it wouldn't be that high if that was only base damage

By base damage I mean average non-crit damage. Under the old +50% damage system, going from 5% crit to 6% crit was a boost of 0.95% damage, while going to 20% to 21% was only a boost of 0.83% damage.

I went by an early HW calculation, if I have enough crit gear I might try some tests for myself.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...mage_formulae/

with 919spellspeed, my cast time is 2.74, with 108 extra spellspeed, my cast time is 2.69 =>>> thats -0.05sec and 1,86% increased castspeed

with 354 my cast time is 3.0, with 108 extra spellspeed, my cast time is 2.95, so -0.05 aswell but here we only get 1.7% inscreased castspeed

so the more spellspeed you have the better is the stat aswell

Yes, the more spell speed you have the more each additional it gives you. It takes about 65 SS to take 1% off your cast time. When you're -10% of cast time already (about 1000 SS), adding 65 SS gives you about 1.12% more casts. This is what I mean by the amount of SS needed decreasing to get the 1% damage boost.

Also to compare differents bis option, i was wondering how you found out that 12int was 1% dmg? I agree with you that 58int is 1% dmg, that's exactly what i found, but for intel what you did, 5hour rotation on a dummy ?

I used multiple dummies and Blizzard II spam, getting the high and low damage number with different setups. Keeping the same DET, each INT increased damage by roughly 0.391 damage from 407 all the way up to 994. I extrapolated to my normal INT (1150), and from there it takes about 12 INT to get 1% increase in damage. Taking off an earring (-47 INT, no DET change) gave just under a 4% drop in damage to confirm.

[StouterTaru]

I went by an early HW calculation, if I have enough crit gear I might try some tests for myself.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...mage_formulae/

I just did some spitball stuff with 354 crit vs 888, and the damage formula seems to be relatively close, and redo'ing with math it appears a sliding stat weight for crit.

Using their figure for crit hit chance (high/low damage is easy to get, not crit chance), what I come up with is with +0 Crit, you'll need about +91 to get a 1% boost to damage. At around +800 crit, you'll get that 1% boost from about +60 crit.

These figures would hold true no matter what your INT or WD are, same as Spell Speed.

[Lavitz_]

Do we even know those stat weights are legit yet? I think it's too early to say whether or not crafted pieces are better than i240 when our only source for stat weights are from a Reddit comment with nothing to back it up.

I'm not saying that person is wrong, but they haven't posted anything that proves those stat weights are real either.

[StouterTaru]

Do we even know those stat weights are legit yet? I think it's too early to say whether or not crafted pieces are better than i240 when our only source for stat weights are from a Reddit comment with nothing to back it up.

I'm not saying that person is wrong, but they haven't posted anything that proves those stat weights are real either.

Those stat weights are wrong, the numbers are more along the lines of:
DET - 0.16 INT
CHR - 0.15-0.20 INT (weight increases with higher CHR)
SpS - 0.19-0.21 INT (weight increases with higher SpS)
That's ignoring rotation and CDs.

SpS gets some bonus from steps at certain values, and the hard to put a number on things like making it easier to keep Enochian up. There's also big steps for SpS, like getting so ungodly much that your AoE rotation goes from 15 seconds to 12 seconds, or being able to keep more thunder in your rotation. But those things don't double the value of it.

[HaroldSaxon]

Those stat weights are wrong, the numbers are more along the lines of:
DET - 0.16 INT
CHR - 0.15-0.20 INT (weight increases with higher CHR)
SpS - 0.19-0.21 INT (weight increases with higher SpS)
That's ignoring rotation and CDs.

SpS gets some bonus from steps at certain values, and the hard to put a number on things like making it easier to keep Enochian up. There's also big steps for SpS, like getting so ungodly much that your AoE rotation goes from 15 seconds to 12 seconds, or being able to keep more thunder in your rotation. But those things don't double the value of it.

Source? Datapoints?

You do know that stat weights are an averaged value of every possible gearset combination at a given i-level.

Stat values (which is what I think you mean) change based on what you already have. You can say "How much Int is 1 spellspeed worth when i've got X Weapon Damage, Y, Int, Z Crit, A det and B spellspeed" using C rotation. But you can't discount any one of those and expect things to be accurate.

And you certainly can't ignore rotation and cooldowns to give a value. Spellspeed is valued higher because of rotation value - you can fit more procs into your rotation, you can also do some nice stuff depending on your cooldowns and group composition. The utility of the stat is far greater than Crit and det because it also makes mechanics easier.

The best way to compare stats is to have a damage calculator that you input your stats into, and you get a perfect world averaged out for normal crit amount of DPS for a given fight length. But we don't have that, at least publicly. There is this though: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ealers/d0ng9m7 But i've not seen the simulation to see if its worth it.