A mid-core content for mid-core players.

[Vieilocean]

I wouldn't suggest making settings/gear unique to that content, at least not in the way you've described it. The issue with that is it puts an artificial time limit on the content's longevity....

Yes, and for this very reason that I wrote this post. This content must be between "savages" and an "Expert roulette". So a pug-able content. If you read the post, all the content it's based on basic mechanics of the game, and not on party coordination like "savages" that you need a static for enjoy them.

[PArcher]

First off, this sounds like it would be only good for people geared and in good statics. This is definitely not mid-core content (unless its basically impossible to fail)

Second, if you ignore the "wipe or fail anything you have to restart completely" thing (which instantly makes it Savage+ content), it sounds like a more fleshed-out Diadem (which, coincidentally enough, is mid-core content).

Third, since the only rewards are glamours, it won't be run a lot unless those glamours are extremely good (High Allagan level of good), and even then, if it takes as long as you want to clear it (face it, wipes will happen, so going with your methods it will take the average group hours and hours to finish, if they even bother trying after the first wipe) people just won't bother (except those who can one-shot it fast...AKA the hardcore players).


Basically...yeah, bad idea written all over it.

[Vieilocean]

First off, this sounds like it would be only good....

Why? I specifically wrote that is based on basic mechanics (dodging, debuff or Giruveganus). Gear? Have you read the 12° point? I guess not.

Second, if you ignore the "wipe or fail anything you have to restart completely" thing ...

Why? again. It's about challenge, about fun. There're not too cooperative mechanics like savage's digititis or whatever. I wrote also that.

Third, since the only rewards are glamours, it won't be run a lot unless those glamours are extremely good (High Allagan level of good), and even then...

First, I wrote it for the challenge. Second, the loot is all over the instance and not only if you clear the content. Read the 11° point.

Before reply PArcher, try to read up the whole thing. I'm open to suggestions, but at least give it a good read first

[Amiaze]

Yes, and for this very reason that I wrote this post. This content must be between "savages" and an "Expert roulette". So a pug-able content. If you read the post, all the content it's based on basic mechanics of the game, and not on party coordination like "savages" that you need a static for enjoy them.

I'm afraid I don't understand. I was really only disagreeing with the gear and loot for the content you're proposing in that quote, not the difficulty of the content. If you read my post, you'll see that, while I did say that the issue is really more in the fact that the content is not PUG-able, I did also say that they could make "midcore" content at least as hard as Coil was post-nerf.


The reason I suggested that specifically was because, while they certainly did require party coordination, it didn't have to be flawless. Without any party coordination whatsoever, what you'll end up with is something a little too similar to dungeons (which I agree are too easy). But why not give it the difficulty of, say, nerfed Rafflesia? Blighted Bouquet was more or less a guaranteed death if not handle properly, and due to other mechanics, a guaranteed wipe...pre-nerf. Post-nerf, however, people consistently ignored or mishandled Blighted Bouquet and the party could still recover.


EDIT: To clarify, there are points in your post that I did not address, such as tokens and respawn limitations. I did not address them not because I don't think that they are good ideas, but because I think there may be an easier solution to creating midcore content.

[PArcher]

snip

I did read everything. Those are just the worst parts of your "idea", for the group you are trying to design something for at least.

Mid-core don't do things just "for the challenge". They do things with moderate difficulty, that aren't completely punishing in a PUG (EX Primals, 24-mans, dungeons, Normal Alex etc), and they don't spend hours on one thing. Many wish they could raid, but lack the time and dedication to be in there before gearing up and/or nerfs, unless they get lucky with a casual static. And they still need a carrot on a stick to get them to do things.

This group, like casuals, also hates needless and needlessly punishing mechanics; restarting the entire thing right at the end is needlessly punishing for content at this tier, for example, especially if its taken and hour or more to get to that point (heck, even hardcore will walk away from this after seeing this happen).

As for mechanics, if none require group coordination, and are all easy, there's no challenge and little fun. But with the no respawn, it sounds like they're going to be on the "tougher" side, which is also no fun.


Also, you have to lock the best stuff behind completion; if you can get the same loot right at the beginning of the instance, no one is going to do the whole thing, just zone in, open first chest, zone out, repeat. Its also why random chest usually drop filler items (pots, prisms, etc) no one wants.

[Alexftw]

A5S can be done in pf btw. It's about same difficulty as sepiroth.

What stops you from doing a pf party? I still remember doing first time thordan and a1s + farming these on party finder.

Edit: if you really don't have time at the moment then wait until your gear is a bit better. It will be much easier by then. The patch won't be going anywhere seeing as last raid lasted 7 months and no1 has beaten a8s yet.


Also why compare a3s?

A1,a2, a3, a4, void ark and dungeons were for casuals. Bismark ex, ravana ex, a1s and a2s and thordan ex were midcore back then(and nor Alex nor thordan weapons got outdated until 3.2 and ravana weaps were a good alternative to esos until 3.1). A3s and a4s were for the hardcore.

If we go by logic, the proportion of content for each difficulty seems fair. You asked for midcore content when in truth it already exists.


As for what you asked.. In my opnion that's what diadem should have been like. Instead they made a faceroll content. But still, the bigger the map the longer it takes to develop content for it.

[Vieilocean]

I'm afraid I don't understand. I was really only disagreeing with the gear and loot for the content you're proposing in that quote, not the difficulty of the content. If you read my post, you'll see that, while I did say that the issue is really more in the fact that the content is not PUG-able...

I think we have the same idea of difficulty but we're not comprehending each other. The difficulty I want is like the one of Titan EX, Ultima and Thor EX (on release) for the last boss. For the mid-bosses a difficulty like a Giruveganus (last Stone Vigil HM' boss), and for mobs not the trash we have all over the contents, but mobs with synergy between them, like the ones in A2S for example. But also a version post nerf of the old Coils could it be a good suggestion, at least for bosses.

[Vieilocean]

snip

With this reply I understood your point of view. And with you many people share the same think. I'm an old school player, that play first for fun, and the rewards are only a plus. However I respect your thought. Maybe I'm only daydreaming with a hope for a content like this, but I wanna try it out.

[Vieilocean]

A5S can be done in pf btw. It's about same difficulty as sepiroth.

What stops you from doing a pf party?...

You're not getting the point. I said that in game THERE IS mid-content, but are only trials that after few week of play (when you get 4-5 for the jobs you play). This is a content with high replayability.

I compare A3S because I consider Alexander all togheter. I always played Coils and Alexander completely with my static, cause also A1S or A2S at release were impossible with PUGs.

[SimonTremelay]

You people seem to have a different concept of midcore content than me, to be honest. Midcore shouldn't equal to easy. Having something that is really hard to close due to its overall complexity and not just because of dps check or difficoult party mechanics is what I miss; if you think that midcore content is something that you can close 100% with pugs and that gives good rewards the word you're looking for is "farming".