GM response needed. Conflicting info regarding the selling of plots.

[Andrea]

Agreed you'll never make that kind of money just from doing daily stuff. But stating that house owners have used any form of RMT is not only insulting but vastly incorrect.
1. You have the coil/alex/primal sellers they rake in the cash

2. A good moneymaker used to be going into diadem and started fishing up pterodactyls. A 90 minute run will get you around 40 of them which sell for 15-25k gil netting 600k-1000k.

3. Do some research into what materials are used by crafters a lot and go harvest them. This also works for mob drops

4. Lowish level crafting from level 25-35 can bring in 10-20k an item. It adds up after a while

5. High level crafting sky pirate gear used to bring 300k-800k before 3.2

6. lvl 60 ilvl 150 crafting and gathering gear also brings in a pretty penny

7. Though boring spamming leves can earn you quite a bit

8. While doing everything else make shure you complete the challenge logs

I hope that gives enough possibilities to earn gil without resorting to RMT.

Literally every example you have listed involves selling to other people. How can you say 100% that the money you get isnt money people bought through RMTs? That was my point. If you have sold anything on the market board at all the chances of you obtaining rmt money is incredibly high.

I do not see how it is insulting to say that someone could of bought something of you using RMT bought money but ok...

BTW i own a house, did I buy money to buy it? No of course not. Can I say that I sold something that someone bought of the market board after buying gil? Yet again No of course I can't.

[Paladinleeds]

That would be horrible i currently like my medium house and i dont want to have to pay again for what i have. Also setting prices at 50-200m will lock the vast majority of the people out of housing permanently on my server.

If your server is considered a poor/medium server I could see that being an issue. But Odin is considered a rich server. The current prices are way too cheap and I would wager there's a huge number of players on Odin that have trillions of gil earned without buying gil from sellers. Honestly, even setting the plot prices are 50 billion on Odin would only knock back say 10% of the population. It's insane.

[Kosmos992k]

Literally every example you have listed involves selling to other people. How can you say 100% that the money you get isnt money people bought through RMTs? That was my point. If you have sold anything on the market board at all the chances of you obtaining rmt money is incredibly high.

Realistically, once the gil has changed hands once or twice, one gil is as clean as the next. I hate to call it laundered, but it is,realistically speaking. Ideally, gil sold through RMT could be tracked and siphoned from the accounts of those possessing it. But then you get into the downstream use of gil. Because the MB is effectively blind, you have no control over who you sell to, and so all transactions have to be considered made in good faith.

If someone sells something in good faith through the MB and unwittingly receives tainted gil, is it right to take that gil away from them? They had no idea that someone with bad gil was buying their product, and in fact they have no choice with respect to who buys what. If anything it could be argued that SE bears some responsibility since their system hosts and facilitates the transaction (please note I am NOT blaming SE). Now, if that player in turn then buys something from another, how can the third player in the chain be held accountable? They have no way whatsoever to know that someone with tainted gil unwittingly used it to buy their product.

That's the problem, you can't really claim tainted gil unless you are dealing with the player who actually bought the gil through RMT. So it's really not fair to keep pushing this line that people selling stuff on the MB to other players and then buying a house did so using bad gil.

[Andrea]

That's the problem, you can't really claim tainted gil unless you are dealing with the player who actually bought the gil through RMT. So it's really not fair to keep pushing this line that people selling stuff on the MB to other players and then buying a house did so using bad gil.

Im not saying there is anything wrong with it, but to claim every bit of your money has never touched RMTs hands is a bit of a stretch.

I don't know how people find it insulting, i have sold a lot of stuff on the MB. I can say with almost 100% certainty that I have touched RMT money unwittingly in the past. Should I be judged for it? of course not.

All im saying is realistically everyone has touched RMT money lol

Also Im not saying its bad gil, gil is gil and no one should geel bad for it.

[Welsper59]

Im not saying there is anything wrong with it, but to claim every bit of your money has never touched RMTs hands is a bit of a stretch.

I don't know how people find it insulting, i have sold a lot of stuff on the MB. I can say with almost 100% certainty that I have touched RMT money unwittingly in the past. Should I be judged for it? of course not.

All im saying is realistically everyone has touched RMT money lol

Also Im not saying its bad gil, gil is gil and no one should geel bad for it.

I know I have tainted gil and items. Pretty sure a good number of my shards are still from when I bought a ton while they were being botted by RMT shortly after 2.0 released, so prices were extremely low, like 10 gil each. Likewise, I used to make numerous sales of crafted i55 or lower gear to RMT and general botters. Income or items are what they are. Unlike IRL though, there's no actual blood spilled to be traced back to the paper/coin, so whatever on that lol.

[kingatlas]

Ok this Thread has A LOT of Flawed Logic.

1) Having High priced houses encourages RMT use. FALSE
----Having Prices be High does not encourage RMT use in itself. Using this Logic, you could say, selling anything at a high price is encouraging RMT use.
----RMT use in this patch is heightened a lot because of all the new craftables, and the materia needed/prices.
----SE should have planned this out better. It's obvious to everyone, that for some people Buying RMT Gil is the fastest way to get your gear so you can raid.
----Also, for crafters who fell behind on gear and wish to catch up and make all the new items, RMT is the fast lane.

2)People camping and selling houses is bad for economy, and ruins peoples experience. FALSE
----I know some will disagree, vehemently, but it shouldn't be against TOS.
----For some wild, illogical reason, people assume if the people who camped houses didn't do so they would magically able to buy a house.
----As if they all the houses would remain open until you decided to purchase a house.
----The problem is like real life you can't always get what you want. OBVIOUS RESPONSE it's a game and I want it (stomps feet, cries)
----For some people selling houses is part of the fun of the game, so why is your fun more important than theirs.
----THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS I know you want to own your own house, but you can also share a house with a friend if you want the house experience
----You can also rent out your house (now that you can share it with people) that would give other the chance to have the house experience
----I know you want your name on the deed, because that is the only way it will be fun, even though you can have all the same privileges and be able to do anything you want

[Gyson]

If your server is considered a poor/medium server I could see that being an issue. But Odin is considered a rich server. The current prices are way too cheap and I would wager there's a huge number of players on Odin that have trillions of gil earned without buying gil from sellers. Honestly, even setting the plot prices are 50 billion on Odin would only knock back say 10% of the population. It's insane.

People with "trillions of gil" are not necessarily buying from RMT sellers, but they are pricing their items in a way that guarantees currency generated through RMT is making its way to their hands.

Come on, guys, let's be realistic about this. Everyone knows what it takes to earn even a million gil through just server generated events (i.e. money not trading hands between players). Selling something for millions of gil (e.g. a house for 40 million gil).. you may not be consciously thinking about it, but you are in no way targeting your average player with pricing like that. You're targeting people with a lot of money - people who have either bought money from RMT or people who have sold something (or a lot of somethings) to people that have (somewhere down the line) used RMT. With ridiculous-enough pricing, you may even be encouraging other desperate players to turn to RMT (sadly).

It's a way of getting your hands on a piece of that wealth without directly dealing with RMT yourself. If SE could magically remove all the gil ever generated through RMT, I guarantee you even the wealthiest of servers would be a crap-ton poorer.

Edit: I want to stress that I'm not trying to paint myself all innocent here. I price my items on the marketplace at what I know they can sell at, just like everyone else. But I'm fully aware of how much money people can realistically generate *outside* of the marketplace (or other form of player-to-player transactions), and I know the prices I see and charge on the auction house can only truly be sustained because somewhere down the line someone is participating in RMT. In other words, I'm not feigning ignorance about any of this.

Someone earlier brought up the term "laundered".. but mainly the reason I brought this up was because of the notion that SE prices housing far cheaper than they should - which raises the question of whether developers should plan an economy around the idea of RMT one day being stamped out of their game, or pricing under the (depressing) thought that RMT practices will always be around and thriving. Like I said, remove the RMT generated gil from the game and I think you'll find the current price SE chose for housing is scarily high.

[ruskie]

There is at least one green gil guide around(gil that is generated by the game from player activity - just search for it) - it's possible to generate at least 1 mil/week by doing roulettes, challenge log, hunts, collectibles(this technically is limited only by amount of mats you can gather and craft), beast tribes. Things add up in the end.

[MrCide]

Well, I put my plot up in PF to relinquish, maybe for 2 hours. Found a buyer who was happy - I sold it for less than I paid because I want to buy a plot somewhere else in the future. I got a violation on my account for doing so the same day of billing. Really nice.

[Gyson]

Well, I put my plot up in PF to relinquish, maybe for 2 hours. Found a buyer who was happy - I sold it for less than I paid because I want to buy a plot somewhere else in the future. I got a violation on my account for doing so the same day of billing. Really nice.

"Sold it for less than I paid" - Are you talking about less than you paid the game to claim the land, or less than you paid another player to first relinquish the land (back in the day)? Perhaps both combined?

All gil is generated from in game activity. RMT doesn't introduced a bunch of money that would otherwise not be there. A lot of the gil is stolen from hacked accounts, bought from one player and sold to another, or they bot mining shards and such and sell those to others. People talk like they just magically summon up gil to sell and without them there would be so much less currency. Where the hell do people think this money comes from? I guarantee they aren't propping up the economy by botting fates and 4 man dungeons.

Of course all gil is generated from game activity - I don't think anyone suggested otherwise. But surely you understand the difference between someone collecting gil from game activity and using it to buy your 5 million gil item off the marketboard versus someone using real-life money to purchase 5 million gil from RMT sources (and then using it to buy your item)?

Either way you're ending up with 5 million gil, so what do you care, right? But I think we can safely say in the latter example your pricing encouraged someone to support RMT practices, and realizing how difficult it is to earn 5 million gil without player transactions being involved (e.g. relying instead on leves, quests, dungeons, FATEs, etc) I would hope you're at least aware on some level what your inflated pricing is doing.

Rarely is it that cut and dry.. in truth your 5 million gil item was purchased by someone who made that 5 million gil selling items to other players, who in turn each made their gil selling items to other players, etc, etc. However, somewhere down the line in that chain the chances are pretty good that RMT was involved. If RMT currency never existed (in other words, if there weren't a bunch of RMT employees dedicating time towards farming up all that gil in the first place) there would be a whole lot less gil floating around in our economy right now, and the prices we charge other players would be a whole lot lower.

But it does exist, and we price accordingly because we all want a piece of that pie, which in turn forces more people to turn to RMT sources, and the problem just gets worse and worse. That's what we mean by that.