For the 129392831203123801 time. STOP IT with the genderlocked gear.

[Lemuria]

I'm fine with gender-locked gear. Admittedly though, it would be nice to have more of a balance. Right now the scales are tipped heavily towards females, and there aren't enough male-specific items to counter with. I feel if there was more of a balance in that area, people would have far fewer complaints regarding the system as a whole. Well, besides the select few who just want to see a Roegadyn in a bridesmaid dress... *shudder*

[Niwashi]

We just don't see petty reasons like number differences as something to be so upset or disappointed about it. Now, substantial differences like the Minfillia outfit, Thav set, or MGP stuff, sure... can definitely understand that and can be something people demand change for. But something practically of no meaning other than uneven numbers (like the gloves) to rage about is absolutely petty.

Well, for the most part it's those sort of differences (Minfillia, Thav set, MGP stuff) that got people upset in the first place, so if you agree on those ones, then our positions aren't that far off. I haven't even seen the Expeditioner's Gloves except for their icon. It's become a discussion on each new female restricted item because they're just piling insult on top of injury. Instead of fixing the ones people really care about, SE is just adding yet more restrictions for the sake of adding restrictions. There's no valid reason for any of these restrictions and some of them impact what players can do, so I think SE should get rid of all of them and return the game to the equality they were lauded for when the game came out.


I'd like to glamour the bunny crown to my Ninja gear as an allusion to the Mysidian Rabbit, and if my character were female, I could do so. Why is that joke one that males aren't allowed to make? If you have a female character, you can dress her as a dancer using the Thavnarian set. Why can't we dress our male characters as dancers? (Those are the two cases where the gender imbalance affects me directly, because they're the two I would want to use myself and can't, at least not with the characters I'd want them on.)

What gets most of us upset is issues like those, where the whole idea behind a glamour is blocked simply because of these gender locks. Fantasia is no solution because the whole point of glamour would be wrecked if we didn't like what our character looked like in the first place. (I actually have both male and female alts, but my favorites are male because they look better.)

I don't have a particular glamour in mind where the expeditioner's gloves would be an essential part of it, but if someone did, then the same would apply. They shouldn't be blocked from it based just on which gender they like. It's all the same issue. If SE is going to go to the trouble of creating a new piece of gear and putting it into the game, then they should allow all their players the same access to it regardless of which gender they play. The argument isn't really about the numbers. The numbers come into it because that points out just how often the problem is being compounded. Each of those numbers represents something that half the playerbase can do but the other half cannot.

[FJerome]

Have you tried wearing a miniskirt on your head? ;_; it doesn't look remotely like bunny ears at all!

Holding out on, not for! I really don't understand why they just haven't done it, given the demand.

Their scattershot approach to gender-neutral gear genuinely does confuse me because I doubt the devs hate doing it, given the succubus horns and the claws of the beast were gender-neutral from the get-go, there's that uraeus skirt, ladies can get their butch on in the Noct Armour, I look like a godsdamn catamite in the summoner artefact gear, etc, etc, etc.

[Welsper59]

Well, for the most part it's those sort of differences (Minfillia, Thav set, MGP stuff) that got people upset in the first place, so if you agree on those ones, then our positions aren't that far off. I haven't even seen the Expeditioner's Gloves except for their icon. It's become a discussion on each new female restricted item because they're just piling insult on top of injury. Instead of fixing the ones people really care about, SE is just adding yet more restrictions for the sake of adding restrictions. There's no valid reason for any of these restrictions and some of them impact what players can do, so I think SE should get rid of all of them and return the game to the equality they were lauded for when the game came out.

I'd like to glamour the bunny crown to my Ninja gear as an allusion to the Mysidian Rabbit, and if my character were female, I could do so. Why is that joke one that males aren't allowed to make? If you have a female character, you can dress her as a dancer using the Thavnarian set. Why can't we dress our male characters as dancers? (Those are the two cases where the gender imbalance affects me directly, because they're the two I would want to use myself and can't, at least not with the characters I'd want them on.)

What gets most of us upset is issues like those, where the whole idea behind a glamour is blocked simply because of these gender locks. Fantasia is no solution because the whole point of glamour would be wreaked if we didn't like what our character looked like in the first place. (I actually have both male and female alts, but my favorites are male because they look better.)

I don't have a particular glamour in mind where the expeditioner's gloves would be an essential part of it, but if someone did, then the same would apply. They shouldn't be blocked from it based just on which gender they like. It's all the same issue. If SE is going to go to the trouble of creating a new piece of gear and putting it into the game, then they should allow all their players the same access to it regardless of which gender they play. The argument isn't really about the numbers. The numbers come into it because that points out just how often the problem is being compounded. Each of those numbers represents something that half the playerbase can do but the other half cannot.

I get what you and most others mean, I truly do (at least I think I do). The thing that needs to be understood is that there IS potentially valid reason for it. Maybe this is just me speaking from my well over a decade long MMORPG exposure, but creative freedoms is certainly reason enough to be this way. You might not agree, but devs tend to like the idea of substance to our choices. It gives value to our personal choices, instead of them being "well it wouldn't matter either way" sort of feelings. Take XI for example, there are many restrictions there based on our choices. Gender restrictions and even race restrictions/differences. Heck, we have race restrictions here... yet no one really seems to care about that one for one reason or another. In XI however, people understood that we choose based on this idea of diversity. Make your choices count, sort of thing. That's not to say that males should not have good choices, but I'd say of actual diverse differences, the male only (or unisex, I guess) glamour tends to have far greater popular value than a lot of the female only ones. Mind you, I didn't say all of them... just most, by numbers. Things like the bunny ears (not the whole set) and Thav body piece (not the whole set) tends to be very popular to argue about.

Maybe the devs could not give a damn about creative freedoms in this particular case and just choose to ignore unless otherwise feeling the need for it. My opinion would certainly be a little different if that were the case. In the meantime though, their choices are theirs to make for their own reasons. While you might see the idea of wanting a Thav set as a male character being a no-brainer (which IRL, I would agree with), I could also demand for breast augmentation/implants for males. We can do that IRL, afterall. Why is one more acceptable to be denied than the other? It serves no purpose other than aesthetics in games, just as glamour does. Then ask yourself where do you draw the line?

[Morningstar1337]

Snip

I try not to get involved into this debate, but in light of your post, I feel like asking what you think about the city-state and Grand Company choices and if you think they succeeded in adding substance.

[Welsper59]

I try not to get involved into this debate, but in light of your post, I feel like asking what you think about the city-state and Grand Company choices and if you think they succeeded in adding substance.

Given how little they do for us (outside of Frontlines), and the fact that storywise they do very little, I don't think much about them at all. If anything, the specific locations, personal pride, and glamour to be found for the GC choice would be the real differential factor between them. The first two being much more subjective than the last. Again, that's being said outside of Frontlines.

I'm assuming you're moreso referring to the decision of choosing your starting city-state, than anything else, to which it really doesn't matter because there are no true lasting or lengthy consequences. I sometimes tire of using XI as an example for points, but it really is a good source for MMORPG related pros and cons, so bear with me on this. In XI, they offered you the choice to select your starting zone for good reason. It became your national affiliation, which significantly affected storyline, some quests, items you could buy from vendors, and ease of progress into gated content. Depending on your race, it would also offer an additional bonus if you chose a fitting start location for said race (Elvaan to San d'oria would get a melee catered lv1 ring, I think). To some degree, your choices affected you, even when it came to high level content, with race specific usable gear... gear that affected your actual performance. Hell, your race even determined your stats, sometimes very noticeably, like Galka were lower MP and casting stats than Tarutaru, and vice versa with melee situations.

There's no way in hell that the people here would appreciate such a dividing system of choices, not when so many players care about "best" rather than "acceptable". So the XIV team needs to cater to more people without having such significant consequences for player choices. The desire to leave some degree of pros/cons to our choices can still be a thing though. If I were a developer, I would absolutely want players to think about their choices in a fantasy game instead of not caring at all for them. A warped situation, sure, but I digress.

I don't think they succeeded as far as choices go. They merely added diverse environments, but it does not affect us in many ways as to what our choices when we start mean for us when starting in X city, as opposed to Y city. Perhaps that's not something they cared about though with city states, as evidence would suggest. The same applies to GCs, as I stated earlier. Other than colors/pictures and the players you happen to see, they mean little to nothing. They could just call the GC's "Team A", "Team B", and "Team C" with little impact at all to why we would choose one over another. So if that one was supposed to have an impact, it really didn't... other than frustrations with the gameplay feature itself (GC restrictions) to group activity. That problem is vastly superior to complain about over glamour, IMO.

[Konicorgi]

When I read this thread I imagined that a man is getting angry because he's not allowed to wear girl clothes. I couldn't stop laughing.

You would be angry if female were not allowed to weaar male's clothes. Can you imagine girls today always wearing robe or jupe, like no jean at all?
That's what make me laught the most with female, they want gender equality and fight for it, but the more they do the more they just want to surpass the male and switch role.

Human is such a laughtable race.

[Zumi]

Personally I wish there were more gender locked outfits so I can have some more girly looking stuff for my female Au Ra. Like dresses, or stuff that shows off their figure.

[Cynric]

You would be angry if female were not allowed to weaar male's clothes. Can you imagine girls today always wearing robe or jupe, like no jean at all?
That's what make me laught the most with female, they want gender equality and fight for it, but the more they do the more they just want to surpass the male and switch role.

Human is such a laughtable race.

This doesn't make sense in terms of truth or to read. Most female characters are played by male players, So in truth.. You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not even sure if the person you quoted is actually female. You should remember this is an MMORPG where male or female can play whatever gender they feel like.

[Niwashi]

getting a bit off-topic for this thread, but the side conversation seemed interesting, so......

I'm assuming you're moreso referring to the decision of choosing your starting city-state, than anything else, to which it really doesn't matter because there are no true lasting or lengthy consequences.

Well, if "lasting" is your criterion, there aren't, but for those who play mainly for the story, having a completely different story for the first 15 levels worth of the game is a significant consequence anyway, despite not being a very lasting one. (Having it significant but limited to early levels makes it feasible for players concerned about missing the other stories to get them by making a couple extra characters to play through the parts that differ. That seems like a reasonable balance.)

The same applies to GCs, as I stated earlier. Other than colors/pictures and the players you happen to see, they mean little to nothing. They could just call the GC's "Team A", "Team B", and "Team C" with little impact at all to why we would choose one over another.

I've heard that 1.0 had GC gear that differed a lot more (in actual stats, not just appearance) according to which one you chose. That would make the choice more meaningful in one regard, but it would be a hindrance otherwise. I doubt they could have even added something like Frontlines to the game if that had still been the case.

How much harder would it be to get balanced groups if all the players whose main is a tank joined the GC with the best tank gear while all the players whose main is a healer joined the GC with the best healer gear, and so on for melee, ranged, and casters? The fact that players now end up choosing based on things like what colors they like for their GC gear and barding, or which city's background music they want to hear while they're at the GC headquarters for turn-ins (which as personal preference type of reasons are much more varied) means that we can get a more even split.