is WAR the best MT now?

[Hierro]

Since when?

Let's not act like nothing's changed. Let's not act uppity and act like this feeling of a nerf is exclusive to lesser players. Just because enmity generation in tank stance has changed to compensate for our 20% damage nerf does not mean enmity generation out of stance has.

[BattleGrace]

I bring this question up now that we live in a post-3.2 world. Tank damage has been lowered significantly. Holding aggro is no longer as easy as it used to be, where one could perform an opener loaded with burst and enmity, then turn it off and cruise in DPS stance for the remainder of the fight. Now holding aggro is something to actually worry about.

This holds mostly true, but WAR is the exception. Thanks to our enmity combo being the same as our damage combo, this is always used. This in turn allows WAR to stay in DPS stance longer than the other tanks. Other tanks do not have this luxury, so if they are to stance dance, their time out of tank is much shorter than WAR for fear of another DPS/Healer ripping aggro. This is also coupled with the fact that the other two tanks' aggro combo being their least optimal combo for DPS, leading to a wider gap between them and WAR in terms of DPS.

Since the tanks are mostly equal in their ability to mitigate damage by looking at their CDs, it seems that WAR has the upper hand in holding aggro, along with their spot at #1 damage. So, then, does this make WAR the new best main tank? I will add the qualifiers that I do not have as much experience with the other tanks as I do with WAR, or much experience due to my short time here, so this is not so a MUH CLASS IS DA BES thread as much as it is inviting the opinions of the other tanks to weigh in on the matter .

this might sound like a MUH CLASS IS DA BES but there was never not a time after 2.1 that WAR wasn't a good MT, ive ran MT since 2.1 myself as WAR (it started out to prove that pally wasn't the best but turned into so much more) and sure there was a time that i rolled pally but do you think i MT'd, hell no, i made my WAR MT since if i couldn't live the dream i was going to be there watching with the best seat in the house. things realy only changed with 3.0 with deliverance since now that superior dmg translated into more OT dmg. did that stop me?, hell no, stuck to that defiance and tanked that shit with a DRK as my OT.

point of the story, WAR is a great MT, it has all the tools and more, there is also a nice satisfaction of being the "OT" that main tanks. don't let the forums or anyone tell you that you have to OT if you want to MT.

[Hierro]

point of the story, WAR is a great MT, it has all the tools and more, there is also a nice satisfaction of being the "OT" that main tanks. don't let the forums or anyone tell you that you have to OT if you want to MT.

Oh no, there was never any doubt that WAR could MT, be a competent or viable choice even. No, my question is if the current changes might have shifted WAR into being DA BES main tank. Never change, you brave MT Warrior. Never change.

[Disc]

Let's not act like nothing's changed. Let's not act uppity and act like this feeling of a nerf is exclusive to lesser players. Just because enmity generation in tank stance has changed to compensate for our 20% damage nerf does not mean enmity generation out of stance has.

The honest truth is nothing really has changed. The minor shift in stats has been barely noticeable beyond finding myself near impossible to kill in old content because I have so much HP. Stance dancing is still a DPS loss if you don't get enough hits in before swapping back to Grit, and Grit itself is still largely irrelevant after the first 30 seconds of any fight beyond reducing damage taken. I can't speak definitively for PLD since I haven't played it in months, but this whole act is getting old. If you refuse to accept that & feel like prancing around exclaiming how great WAR MT is for the wrong reasons, that's your business.

[eagledorf]

This is something I wrote back at patch 3.1 and little has changed since.

WAR is hands down the most flexible and powerful MT by a large margin. Now, it is the most technical so maybe in the first hour of tackling a piece of content it might be disadvantaged, but that's a very short-term disadvantage and cannot be considered as part of the job balance.

[BattleGrace]

Oh no, there was never any doubt that WAR could MT, be a competent or viable choice even. No, my question is if the current changes might have shifted WAR into being DA BES main tank. Never change, you brave MT Warrior. Never change.

Well like all content it comes down to weather or not one tank has an advantage over the others and atm i can't speak for savage but from what i have experianced there is no doubt that it is at the very least the best replacement for any main tank with its suit of cooldowns that arn't specific to magic or physical that have relatively low cooldowns, i have yet to find any content that IB and Venge can't take the hit or IB and thrill for that matter and thats just it,IB is such a strong ability that pairs very well with your already low cooldown high mitigation skills. sure other tanks have eather better more niche abilities or cooldowns as a whole but the amount of bases WAR can cover make it a damn good choice as the second best when specific mitigation fails.

As to threat since i do not have a DRK i can't speak for them but i can for pally and im sorry but WAR>PLD on that front.

does all this make them the best main tank period? No, no tank is the absolute best. it does make them a damn good consideration for best replacement tank when all else fails.
does that make them OP? a tad, i won't name any skills i think are OP or anything like that but as a whole a WARs toolkit complements every other tank including another WAR very well.
Dare i say some would even call that true balance.

[SpookyGhost]

RE: Threat -> Have the WAR pull, tank swap at the end of Berserk.

RE: WAR best MT -> Largely depends, WAR can take the tank buster in A5S with all CDs and have them all back up when it happens again which is pretty good as OT, but it also has the same advantage for the actual Headache stacks as MT (though this does come with a damage down debuff while they're happening so I'm not sure if that's the best option). You also have to consider the advantage of PLD/DRK, in that they can use Dark Mind/Sheltron out of tank stance whereas IB is locked behind WAR's, though it's available for practically free every 120s. Bunch of other stuff, but basically it boils down to "depends on the fight".

[MistakeNot]

I bring this question up now that we live in a post-3.2 world. Tank damage has been lowered significantly. Holding aggro is no longer as easy as it used to be, where one could perform an opener loaded with burst and enmity, then turn it off and cruise in DPS stance for the remainder of the fight. Now holding aggro is something to actually worry about.

Holding aggro is actually easier than before - as long as you do your tanking in the tank stance.
Stance dancing does not seem to be something that you are actually supposed to do while tanking.

[BattleGrace]

Holding aggro is actually easier than before - as long as you do your tanking in the tank stance.
Stance dancing does not seem to be something that you are actually supposed to do while tanking.

I think the main point that needs to be made here is Hierro knows all this stuff that's been said, he knows about threat, knows the ins and outs of his job, he wasn't asking for a rundown. He was asking if WAR is the best MT now since 3.2, to that the answer is there is no right answer, everything has it's place or it's niche. for that you need a subjective debate that can't be done since each tank brings something different, for better or worse. Comparing one job to another in such a narrow minded way that does not belong here.

There is no best and people need to get that out of their head. there is only suitable to content or not suitable. WE as a Tanking community need to focus on our entire job not just one small part of it were it be Threat, dps, cooldowns or effectiveness in combat

I know you are trying to help and thats great, we need more like that but just stating what is now common knowledge does nothing to further the real conversation or debate at hand.
there is nothing wrong with stance-dancing, it is a legitimate way of playing your job, doing at the right time is another story.

[Yitan]

Holding aggro is actually easier than before - as long as you do your tanking in the tank stance.
Stance dancing does not seem to be something that you are actually supposed to do while tanking.

Exactly. I'm still scared to tank everything in deliverence, but you actually can, at least in A5S, which is the only one I tried so far. You only need to do a BB combo with Defiance at pull and then change. Hardly anybody will take aggro from you.