GM response needed. Conflicting info regarding the selling of plots.

[Gyson]

Well, I have the option to wait 45 days to relinquish the plot and get less than I paid for it, or I can use it for gardening and keep making millions of gil from it. Greed? Sure, okay, I'll give you that. Yes, I want to make gil. Which is why I will simply sit on my land and use it for gardening, despite wanting to sell it to someone who would be happy to own it, because having to let my property sit there for 45 days for a return that I could make by just keeping it a little longer than that would be, in my opinion, a pretty terrible choice.

So, no, I will not be relinquishing it. It doesn't give me what my property is worth to me.

Er.. there's nothing greedy about wanting to continue to use a plot to perform housing functions (e.g. gardening). That's kind of the whole point of housing.

I clearly defined what I meant by greed when I said: "The problem is greed - not just wanting the cost of the land back, but to make a pretty penny on top of that." - an activity SE defines as "inappropriate behavior" because "this type of transaction is not arranged by the system".

[MomomiMomi]

Er.. there's nothing greedy about wanting to continue to use a plot to perform housing functions (e.g. gardening). That's kind of the whole point of housing.

I clearly defined what I meant by greed when I said: "The problem is greed - not just wanting the cost of the land back, but to make a pretty penny on top of that." - an activity SE defines as "inappropriate behavior" because "this type of transaction is not arranged by the system".

My point being that I'd rather sell it to someone else for what I consider it to be worth, but I can't. So I'll just continue to use it for gardening, while some FC could be enjoying the house instead. I don't see how this is a good thing for the community in general.

[Laraul]

At least by allowing the land to be reclaimed they receive most of their initial investment back. The problem is greed - not just wanting the cost of the land back, but to make a pretty penny on top of that.

Your blaming Greed, the driving force behind the economies around the world. Why do you think people put there wares up on the game's market boards? Just to recoup the cost of materials? Don't be silly. Everyone is out to make a pretty penny who participates in this game. It's called an incentive. People are more likely to put things up for sale if they can turn a profit.

[Gyson]

My point being that I'd rather sell it to someone else for what I consider it to be worth, but I can't. So I'll just continue to use it for gardening, while some FC could be enjoying the house instead. I don't see how this is a good thing for the community in general.

If you truly have this sincere, burning desire to make your home available to some random individual or group on your server.. make some millions with your gardening (which, honestly, requires minimal effort) and put it aside as a "goodbye-housing" fund. You don't even have to enter your home in the meanwhile, meaning in 45 days you get 80% of the money you paid for the house returned to you PLUS whatever you generate from the garden in that time.

Either way you're getting a load of gil in the end. Otherwise it really doesn't sound like your complaint is at all about "not being able to help someone who really wants a house", and instead more about not being able to make a load of money quickly.

/shrug

[MomomiMomi]

If you truly have this sincere, burning desire to make your home available to some random individual or group on your server.. make some millions with your gardening (which, honestly, requires minimal effort) and put it aside as a "goodbye-housing" fund. You don't even have to enter your home in the meanwhile, meaning in 45 days you get 80% of the money you paid for the house returned to you PLUS whatever you generate from the garden in that time.

Either way you're getting a load of gil in the end. Otherwise it really doesn't sound like your complaint is at all about "not being able to help someone who really wants a house", and instead more about not being able to make a load of money quickly.

/shrug

I don't have a burning desire to make my house available to a random individual or group on my server though. I have a desire to get what I feel my plot is worth. Someone else getting the house is a result of this; a result that will not be happening. Not being able to sell it isn't a loss for me. It's a loss for those who want housing.

[Welsper59]

Is that something you want in a pay to play game? When it can lead to being banned?

We pay for it anyway. I've been calling them spineless since The Wolves Den win trading happened, followed by every occasion where they continue to half ass policies and fail to correct or ignore unacceptable behavior. Heck, even botting in this game goes nearly unpunished if there's no RMT type of gil-related activity (easily trackable) or the user isn't stupid enough to announce they do it in the game and they actually do. I would assume that my comment had already stated as much... I mean, it even said it at the end and implied it throughout.

It's just obvious that no one here cares about such matters where SE cowers to be enough reason to quit. It's also obvious that I'm one of the few who call them out on it, instead of merely questioning conflicting/half-assed responses. They'll never take a stand on such a thing while Yoshi-P is in charge or until his perspective of the player base changes. Leadership needs review if these sorts of issues ever become a big deal but, for now, they're not.

[Gyson]

Your blaming Greed, the driving force behind the economies around the world. Why do you think people put there wares up on the game's market boards? Just to recoup the cost of materials? Don't be silly. Everyone is out to make a pretty penny who participates in this game. It's called an incentive. People are more likely to put things up for sale if they can turn a profit.

I state the problem is people being greedy, you tell me I'm being silly and then go on to confirm that people are being greedy. Ok. I'm glad we agree? Thanks for being silly right along side me, I guess.

Also, there's a pretty obvious difference between the act of placing items up for sale on the marketboard which is specifically in place to support the activity of selling items to other players, and the player-created expectation of selling houses for profit when the game intentionally provides no mechanic to perform this action, was never intended to be done, and is described as "inappropriate behavior" by SE. The former is playing the game as expected, the latter is trying to abuse the system as a means of earning large amounts gil through an illegal activity.

[MomomiMomi]

I disagree that the problem is greed. The problem is the price of the houses. It's abysmally low. They are worth more than the game is selling them for.

[Gyson]

I disagree that the problem is greed. The problem is the price of the houses. It's abysmally low. They are worth more than the game is selling them for.

Well, now you're getting into a discussion about why there is so much money floating around, and a lot of that has to do with RMT. And every player who has ever sold anything to another player has their finger in that pot. And the prices players are trying to charge one another for housing is only encouraging more RMT use. Housing is supposed to be a gil sink by removing money from the economy, not driving players to encourage RMT use.

For players who have obtained money directly from the game (rather than other players), the current cost of housing is by no means "abysmally low". It's discouragingly high. Add the concept of paying other players several times that amount just to get them to move off the land and we're entering the realm of utterly ridiculous.

And to clarify what I said above regarding RMT, I mentioned this elsewhere but I'll repeat it here again: anyone who has sold anything to another player, whether directly or through the marketplace, has had gil pass through their hands at some point that was originally purchased from RMT sources.

With all the ridiculous prices players charge one another.. where does everyone think all that money comes from? You don't set prices at several hundred thousand to millions (especially when selling homes) while targeting currency that was earned 100% legitimately. There's huge swaths of RMT currency floating out there in our economy, and (whether they realize it or not) every single seller is trying to get a hold of some without buying it directly from the very source they condemn.

Players are kidding themselves if they think all the money they've made is 100% RMT-free -- the only people who can honestly make that claim are the players who have earned their fortunes without ever selling anything to another player. Not many people have unlocked the "Honest Gillionaire" title several times over, I suspect.

[Paladinleeds]

RMT discussion related snip

Right, I know this is gonna drag the conversation off-topic, but I feel it relevant given what you've spoken about. Are you suggesting that every player who has made money from RMT-sources because of selling things to other players should be banned from the game for it? Since after all, RMT is bad and all that (I do agree it's bad, but then how far do we go with the punishments?)