Pally Is Almost Perfect

[Februs]

Starting in Shield Oath: Fast Blade > Fight or Flight > Riot Blade > Sword Oath > Circle of Scorn > Goring Blade > Shield Oath. Notice how you lose very little down time in the GCD between Sword Oath and your next GCD ability, making it better than what you are making it out to be.

Not quite. What you're suggesting assumes that the Pld swaps back instantly after they apply their DoT, but that is not optimal. To maximize their Dps, Pld's should be remaining in SwO for the entire duration of FoF (unless boss mechanics require otherwise). Swapping back immediately after applying Goring blade is actually a potency loss, because you are losing out on roughly 17 seconds of increased dmg output. For a full rotation of 30 seconds (FoF's CD timer), and assuming you are beginning your rotation with a FoF buff to your enmity, you're actually looking at using FoF at the beginning of a Goring Blade Combo to maximize potency. The rotation looks like this:

> SwO > FoF > Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Goring Blade > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Royal Authority > Fast Blade > Savage Blade (FoF falls off here, at 20 seconds)> Royal Authority > Shield Oath (oGCD's are not included, because they are rotated in between GCD moves)

The reason it works out like this is because of the timing of a Pld's first use of Fight or Flight, which is typically used at the beginning of a Pld's enmity rotation to secure aggro. FoF's cooldown is 30 seconds. In that time, at a full 2.5 seconds, Pld's can use 12 GCD moves. That's four of their combos (2.5s x 3 =7.5s per combo. 7.5 x 4 = 30s). FoF will be back up just in time for the fifth combo. Meaning, to buff the entirety of a single Goring Blade combo and two consecutive Royal Authority combos, the Pld swaps oaths at the start of their GB rotation.

Circle of Scorn is not included in the rotation, because it's Cool down is actually 5 seconds faster than FoF, meaning that it's up one full combo in advance of FoF. A Pld could wait to pop it, but waiting 5 seconds to pop CoS every time FoF circles around will start to stack by the end of the fight, so it turns out to lose you more dps in the long run.

Enmity is also not an issue in this rotation. Pld's tend to use FoF at the start of their enmity rotation (Ie: Shield Lob > FoF > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > RoH > Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Goring Blade > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Royal Authority / RoH depending on how much of a lead you need on enmity), thereby securing enmity at the start of the fight. Before 3.2, Pld's could hold enmity doing this no problem and were never at risk of losing hate when swapping to SwO during the duration of FoF. Given that enmity has been increased on both Shield Oath and Savage Blade post 3.2, Pld's should have even less trouble holding hate when doing this.

[Ultimatecalibur]

> SwO > FoF > Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Goring Blade > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Royal Authority > Fast Blade > Savage Blade (FoF falls off here, at 20 seconds)> Royal Authority > Shield Oath (oGCD's are not included, because they are rotated in between GCD moves)

FoF is 30s long post 28. You can fit 2 Goring Blade and 2 Royal Authority combos into one FoF. If you really want to get the most out of Stance Dancing you would use this rotation:

Fast Blade > SwO > FoF > Riot Blade > Goring Blade > FB > Savage Blade > Royal Authority > FB > SB > RA > FB > RB > GB > FB (FoF falls off around here) > ShO > SB > RA

[Fernosaur]

FoF is 30s long post 28. You can fit 2 Goring Blade and 2 Royal Authority combos into one FoF. If you really want to get the most out of Stance Dancing you would use this rotation:

Fast Blade > SwO > FoF > Riot Blade > Goring Blade > FB > Savage Blade > Royal Authority > FB > SB > RA > FB > RB > GB > FB (FoF falls off around here) > ShO > SB > RA

What this guy said. You can fit two of your most powerful skill into FoF. You're not doing right if you don't do it like this. This... might not necessarily apply for your high enmity opener, though.

[Februs]

Snip.

That's true, and I made an error there (a little sleep deprived). That said, I'm still not seeing how your way is more optimal. Looking at just the amount of potency buffed and the timing of FoF's CD, I'm pretty sure it still works out to be better to swap Oaths before the combo, in order to save time. Doing some quick napkin math, this is what I'm looking at:

Your suggested way: Fast Blade (150 pot) > SwO > FoF > Riot Blade (230 pot) > Goring Blade (240 pot + 50 pot) > Fast Blade (150 pot) > Savage Blade (200 pot) > Royal Authority (350 pot) + FB (150) + SB (200) + RA (350) + FB (150) + RB (230) + GB (240 +50) + FB (150) >ShO

Combined Buffed Potency of 2740

My suggested way: ShO > FoF > FB (150) > RB (230) > GB (240+50) > FB(150) > SB(200) > RA(350) > FB(150) > SB(200) > RA(350) > FB(150) > RB(230) > GB(240+50) > ShO

Combined Buffed Potency 2740


The amount of potency buffed is identical. The only difference is that my preferred method does not delay FoF. It is used on CD, every 30 seconds, like clockwork. Meaning that, over the course of the fight, I'm not stacking 2.5 seconds each time I delay FoF. This is the exact same way I did it before Oaths were changed, and, by the looks of that quick math, there is really no additional benefit to doing it the new way over the old way, unless I'm missing something (which is possible, since I haven't slept). If there is one downside to my way, it's that it cuts the application of the second DoT a little close. If there are any interruptions to your rotation during the fight, you stand to miss out on a bigger potency than in your preferred method. That said, to my recollection, it is a rare instance in which I don't get that last GB off in time.

I don't know though, I could be totally missing my mark on this. If I am, or if there's something else that I'm not considering, let me know. Because, at the moment, the change to Oaths really doesn't look like anything other than window dressing to me. It gives me a bit more freedom in my rotation, but no direct benefit.

[Ultimatecalibur]

I just have one thing to say

This is absolutely not true? The optimal way to turn Sword Oath on when FoF is back is now:

Fast > Riot > Sword > FoF > Goring > etc

Since delaying FoF in the GCD before the 3rd hit of your combo allows you to get that finisher + 4 more full combos before the effect wears off. Using it before Fast Blade makes it last for 4 combos and the next Fast Blade. Strictly worse by any measurement.

You want it before the Riot Blade because Savage Blade is 30 potency less.

SwO -> FoF -> GB (640) -> FB (150) -> SB (200) -> RA (350) -> FB (150) -> SB (200) -> RA (350) -> FB (150) -> RB (230) -> GB (640) -> FB (150) -> SB (200) -> ShO is 3410 potency buffed by FoF

SwO -> FoF -> RB (230) -> GB (640) -> FB (150) -> SB (200) -> RA (350) -> FB (150) -> SB (200) -> RA (350) -> FB (150) -> RB (230) -> GB (640) -> FB (150) -> ShO is 3440 potency buffed by FoF

Snip.

Less chance of having the final Goring Blade fail to be buffed due to lag/other delays. Starting at Riot Blade and ending at Fast Blade means that both Goring Blades should always be fully buffed.

[Shurrikhan]

You want it before the Riot Blade because Savage Blade is 30 potency less.

Less chance of having the final Goring Blade fail to be buffed due to lag/other delays. Starting at Riot Blade and ending at Fast Blade means that both Goring Blades should always be fully buffed.

I've typically had enough skill speed (~2.38) that I can start on GB, RA combo twice, get another GB, and end with RA. That said, I usually just swapped to Sword Oath with ~7s remaining on FoF's CD before (in Sword for ~40s per 90s), so apart from being able to hold onto my mitigation for another 2 GCDs, the Oath changes haven't changed much of anything in this regard for me. If I needed the mitigation longer, I'd just drop Shield before FoF-GB, CoS, SW, Sword Oath, RA combo, RA combo, GB combo, Fast, Savage, (FoF gone), RA, swap back to Shield. (With Fey Wind I think I could barely get the RA, and with Arrow I could easily get it and another GCD, had I wanted to, or started on Riot instead, though I'd be missing out on an AA bonus there anyways.) Each GB reaches its full duration rather than being clipped (now) 50-100 potency short, though the lost buffed GCD certainly hurt.

[Februs]

Snip

So, basically, it really doesn't make a difference. With my current Skill Speed, I have never (to my recollection) missed out on that last GB. I typically get it off with time to spare, so delaying FoF in order to guarantee a move that is essentially already guaranteed is just a waste of time on my FoF buff. Considering that I would need to delay FoF by 2.5 seconds on application just to do this, I stand to lose more potency over the course of the entire fight than if I just popped it on CD, so, all things considered, I'm gonna stick with my original statement then: The change to Oath Swapping basically did not change anything.

Given that I can still play Pld identically to the way I did before without any loss in potency or enmity means that their change of Oath Swapping is just window dressing. The only time it even comes in handy during Tank swaps, but even those are still clunky, because burning a GCD to swap Oaths means delaying your next enmity strike (unless you happen to have CoS up and at the ready). Otherwise, the change really didn't make a noticeable difference, so it's nothing special.