GM response needed. Conflicting info regarding the selling of plots.

[Gyson]

I can link you several GM tickets that were replied to stating clearly that it is not against the ToS as well. I'll do so when I get home if needed. But all it takes is 5 minutes of research to see many tickets answered this way. There IS still confusion and conflicting information. And there will continue to be until we hear an official response here.

Except date of inquiries is an important factor. What was once reported as being allowed can change to something that is suddenly against policy.

Also, region is a factor. EU servers apparently have a different policy (i.e. it's frowned upon but allowed) than NA servers (where it's no longer allowed).

I don't get what the problem is with flipping FCs/houses. If it's buying a plot to sit on and force people to pay you to get off (then they need to pay money to get the plot themselves...) yeah, I see that. But its a valid tactic to earn money, in my opinion, to flip fcs/houses and make gil like that; some people I know are really good at making a house look spiffy and put a lot of work into getting all sorts of rare and high quality furniture to put in to make the house look better to sell.

Banning sellers is much simpler on customer support than dealing with situations where people freely hand over money to someone that intends to scam them. When you realize that, it's easy to understand their new stance on this.

Or... they can keep it. And people who actually want a house can suffer for it. Thanks SE.

At least by allowing the land to be reclaimed they receive most of their initial investment back. The problem is greed - not just wanting the cost of the land back, but to make a pretty penny on top of that.

Regardless of how property sales work in real-life, in FFXIV the player is paying the Grand Companies for the right to *use* the land, not to take unrestricted ownership of, flip it, and make a profit off of it. The individual plots in these wards is not our land to sell - we never truly own it on that level. That we can now receive even some of the money back when abandoning the land is way better a deal than we initially had.

[Dualgunner]

Banning sellers is much simpler on customer support than dealing with situations where people freely hand over money to someone that intends to scam them. When you realize that, it's easy to understand their new stance on this.

There are precautions one can take against things like that happening; things like screenshots, a neutral third party, etc can be present, and if you're moving this much money for any reason these precautions should be taken into account. I've seen people sell things far more valuable than a house over the party finder because they were going to sell it for less than the Marketboard and ditch the undercutters entirely; is that against terms of service as well, since that could also be a scam?

I realize that this may not be *your* position, but the position SE has taken regarding this is rather dumb.

[Khanscott]

Thinking about it, if we have the option to relinquish land we would need to be restricted to one house per account because it would only give the "business" people all the more reason to hoard houses to sell. People will always have/find ways to sell property regardless of rules and this will never change. If someone can buy houses for each of their alts to sell AND they get their selling price+80% of their initial investment on the property they will do so without question. I thank people who justify selling land, if it wasn't for people like you I wouldn't get 10 messages a minute from bots selling gil to line your pockets.

That or simply make the use of housing a social thing and give all FCs/players the ability to do actions otherwise requiring housing.

[pinder2009]

Buying plots from the server is a major gil sink. And frankly the game could use a lot more gil sinks considering the number of gil fountains there are. I hope SE never changes it so you get your plot money back.

[Welsper59]

You're always going to see conflicting information when the ones in charge don't want to take a stand about something. In context, the GM responses you do see clarify that they do not condone such behavior, but it is within the realm of acceptable practice. Like win trading (man I bring that up a lot when it comes to SE's wishy washy behavior), it isn't something they promote but they refuse to punish players under the pretense of poor conduct that isn't an IRL violation (those violations being harassment, threats, etc).

The posts and screenshots you see that say it's okay that people do it are within the context that the game is being played within the system itself, as in no 3rd party programs or other unfair means to cheat someone out of it that they themselves couldn't do within the game that was not agreed upon prior (for example, a violation of an agreement would be ninja looting something from someone that you had accepted the terms of prior). The GMs you see that mention it being a violation are within the context of them having malicious intent or seeking payment through real money for the transaction. Monopolizing or making some gil in general is NOT considered malicious intent unless otherwise stated by any official release, and it is not, in any way, stated. So until Yoshi-P or whoever has the final say on the matter puts their foot down about bad behavior within the game, you will always see people taking advantage of such weakness.

[Andrea]

You're always going to see conflicting information when the ones in charge don't want to take a stand about something.

Is that something you want in a pay to play game? When it can lead to being banned?

[DarkSeifer]

I have received clarification from the GM support team in a ticket.

The act of selling the information of when a plot becomes available, or "first dibs" is not against the ToS. The only way this action is against the ToS is if you state that you are selling a plot. That could be taken to mean that the gil you receive will also pay for the plot. This would fall under "Scam" which in their ToS is: "In-game scams are defined as any inappropriate actions meant to defraud a fellow player with the intent to take in-game items or other possessions from them."

Here is a picture of one of the email replies from them. (I received more after asking for clarification on what this meant, once again.)

[MomomiMomi]

At least by allowing the land to be reclaimed they receive most of their initial investment back. The problem is greed - not just wanting the cost of the land back, but to make a pretty penny on top of that.

Well, I have the option to wait 45 days to relinquish the plot and get less than I paid for it, or I can use it for gardening and keep making millions of gil from it. Greed? Sure, okay, I'll give you that. Yes, I want to make gil. Which is why I will simply sit on my land and use it for gardening, despite wanting to sell it to someone who would be happy to own it, because having to let my property sit there for 45 days for a return that I could make by just keeping it a little longer than that would be, in my opinion, a pretty terrible choice.

So, no, I will not be relinquishing it. It doesn't give me what my property is worth to me.

[SwdVengeance]

I have received clarification from the GM support team in a ticket.

The act of selling the information of when a plot becomes available, or "first dibs" is not against the ToS. The only way this action is against the ToS is if you state that you are selling a plot. That could be taken to mean that the gil you receive will also pay for the plot. This would fall under "Scam" which in their ToS is: "In-game scams are defined as any inappropriate actions meant to defraud a fellow player with the intent to take in-game items or other possessions from them."

Here is a picture of one of the email replies from them. (I received more after asking for clarification on what this meant, once again.)

This is exactly the type of clarification I hoped for, and honestly would want, but for the sake of future referencing and proof, mind posting the email or bit with that actual clarification in it? That email is extremely generalized and has nothing relating to that point.

[worldofneil]

Here is a picture of one of the email replies from them

From that email (yes I had to type it back out):

We understand that you wish to inquire about potential penalties for buying and/or selling housing plots. This activity is considered inappropriate behavior, since this type of transaction is not arranged by the system. Because of this, it is possible that troubles may arise. These potential troubles could result in inappropriate behaviour towards other players, which is punishable. Please make your judgment based on this.

So basically, how I read it, what they're saying is if they get a complaint/report, they'll more that likely take action. Otherwise they'll let it go, but even that's not a guarantee. If you're selling the rights to a plot you have to accept there might be consequences.

Although I am just speculating, because they haven't flat out said you'll always get punishment it might be reasonable to suggest that if you were only selling the plot for what you paid for it/close to it, that might be acceptable (as in don't make a profit), but if you try and make money out of it, they'll come down on you like a ton of bricks if they find out (via reports or it being public in party finder etc).

But that's just how I read it.