[SPOILERS] Minfillia' Fate in 3.2

[Fenral]

Christ... You're telling me they don't lurk in the shadows when all we've seen from Elidibus since his introduction is various shadowy meetings? Seriously?

No, I'm saying they aren't hidden at this point. Lurking and shadows are just part of the package.

[Nalien]

No, I'm saying they aren't hidden at this point. Lurking and shadows are just part of the package.

So what's your point?

Of course they're not hidden anymore... How would we possibly combat them if that were the case? They've been hidden though, throughout history.

The corruption in the Church of Yevon was hidden for much of the game. Then we found out about it, and it wasn't hidden anymore... During 1.0 Ascians were largely an unknown. Then we found out about them...

Ascians aren't Sin. Primals are Sin. Who is responsible for Sin? Who perpetuated that cycle? Who is responsible for Primals? Who perpetuates this cycle? Who perpetuates the populaces ignorance? That's what I was getting at with the Yevon stuff. By no means is it a perfect parallel, but there is something there. Same thing for the IV/IX comparison I made. I'm trying to draw parallels between this plot and the plot of past titles (or even plots in this game, Ishgard/Nidhogg, for example), to see if that points anywhere, of course those parallels wont be perfect, if they were we'd essentially have the same plot...

[Fenral]

So what's your point?

The Ascians are being held up as the "kill this and all the bad stuff will go away" enemy. Have been for a while at this point, to the point that the "reveal" wasn't really much of a surprise. Whether or not that really turns out to be the case, we're basically taking the word of a giant blue rock on faith alone at this point.

And did you really miss that Ishgard's sudden "kill Nidhogg and everything will be solved!" bent is framed as a tragic turn of events? Technically did kill him already without fixing the root of the problem. It seems to me that you're saying there's really no meaning to the plot point of Nidhogg coming back except so we can kill him again, in public view, to satisfy Ishgard's cravings for dragon blood one last time and write off Estinien so he doesn't have to show up in the next expansion.

"Just kill all the bad people and bad stuff will stop happening" is... not the point. I don't think so, anyway.

[Nalien]

"Just kill all the bad people and bad stuff will stop happening" is... not the point. I don't think so, anyway.

That's a glaring oversimplification...

Stopping the Ascians does not magically fix human nature. We'll still have "bad" people to deal with, Ilberd seemingly had no interaction with Ascians, he caused trouble on his own. Potentially the same for Garlemald, given all we've got so far is Lahabrea and Gaius being in cahoots, and Gaius was on his own anyway (though history with the Allag certainly leaves one suspicious). Primals are going to be a problem regardless, the Amalj'aa know how to summon Ifrit. That's the Ascians fault, but even if we kill each and every last Ascians, the Amalj'aa are still going to know how to summon Ifrit. We're still going to have to deal with that. We'll have to deal with Garlemald dealing with that in the worst possible way. We'll have to deal with silly power struggles...

The only thing I imagine we'd achieve if we wiped out the Ascians (and we wont, because we completely lack the means to do so) is an end to this cycle of Calamities... They're the ones orchestrating them, after all...

It seems to me that you're saying there's really no meaning to the plot point of Nidhogg coming back except so we can kill him again, in public view, to satisfy Ishgard's cravings for dragon blood one last time and write off Estinien so he doesn't have to show up in the next expansion.

Firstly, we can save Estinien. I don't particularly care, but there is no reason to write him off, other than perhaps to put Alphinaud down again so his sister can hopefully come back and slap some sense into him for whatever follows.

As for Nidhogg coming back... Essentially, yes... He came back to push the plot forward, not much else... We've already killed him once, peace was never really an option anyway. That's a two way street that he was completely against walking, we cannot force him to want to make peace... That bridge was burnt long ago, when we rocked into the Aery we just finished the job by burning the river and the land...

That said, I'm less cynical about what he is back to do... Satisfy Ishgard? No. The crazed hate machine is unknowingly undoing his own plans. He wants to separate Ishgard and Dravania, and to make Ishgard suffer, but he just pushed them closer together... Ishgard was shocked to see a dragon get stabbed, that says a lot about where they are right now... Then there's also my pet theory that him flying off to "skies unknown" in 3.1 was Garlemald, and he was setting up a new Eorzea/Garlemald conflict by pointing out Eorzeans are summoning Primals... I swear though, if I have to flip one more table as someone makes me explain that that doesn't mean he is allied with Garlemald...

Hydaelyn has been unbalanced since she sundered Zodiark

Before, if we're to trust her. She claimed Zodiark coveted power, and that broke the balance between Light and Dark, forcing her to banish him... And all this was "Before there was life", which just has me going back to the whole "we exist because Hydaelyn did this" thing and adequately explains the Ascians complete disregard for life in general. So again... I'm not seeing much of a problem with what she did... The only major problems I've seen evidence of since Hydaelyn set up this scenario, are Primals and Calamities... Both of which can be traced back to the Ascians...