PSA: Mentors can talk about anything they want in Novice Network - Discussion with GM

[WinterLuna]

I respect you for accepting your punishment, I just think you should have been more careful with who you chose to kick since not all of them were spamming.

You kicked a person for asking for help and in my opinion that was unjustified. Not much point in continuing to talk about it though, you have a punishment and the rules have been stated, or rather not stated. As much as I disagree with some of the kicks you made, thanks for posting the information.

[LisannaTargaryen]

You are not moderator or gamemaster. Who gave you a right to kick people for anything other RMT spam or harassment? Let's not play a server god here.

Where did i state that? Imo i used the system as seem fitted and instructed by SE. Apparently i was wrong that why i got the punishment. Now that we have a clearer interpretation by a GM that anything goes trust me i will not kick anyone in the future.

[LisannaTargaryen]

I respect you for accepting your punishment, I just think you should have been more careful with who you chose to kick since not all of them were spamming.

You kicked a person for asking for help and in my opinion that was unjustified. Not much point in continuing to talk about it though, you have a punishment and the rules have been stated, or rather not stated. As much as I disagree with some of the kicks you made, thanks for posting the information.

And again if i wanted to appear a saint or victim i could edit and post only the stuff that i deemed supported my cause. Instead i posted the whole converastion even my own salt for the 24 hr ban isn't exactly 24 hr so anyone can draw their own conclusions.

[WinterLuna]

And again if i wanted to appear a saint or victim i could edit and post only the stuff that i deemed supported my cause. Instead i posted the whole converastion even my own salt for the 24 hr ban isn't exactly 24 hr so anyone can draw their own conclusions.

I'm not saying you're trying to appear a saint, however your post isn't entirely true, as I stated multiple times that nobody was even discussing Midas strategies. You kicked someone for asking for help with Midas and saying he knew the strategy and just didn't clear it. I believe Mentors should be able to ask for help too in a chat created to help others, new player or not.

[Syrehn]

You are not moderator or gamemaster. Who gave you a right to kick people for anything other RMT spam or harassment? Let's not play a server god here.

SE gave them the right, without any defined guidelines about what is allowed/not allowed in the NN. If they don't want these situations to occur they shouldn't have left NN a total grey area.

[LisannaTargaryen]

I'm not saying you're trying to appear a saint, however your post isn't entirely true, as I stated multiple times that nobody was even discussing Midas strategies. You kicked someone for asking for help with Midas and saying he knew the strategy and just didn't clear it. I believe Mentors should be able to ask for help too in a chat created to help others, new player or not.

Misinterpretation of my comment. Sorry if my grammar was not correct. No you didn't say i was trying to be a saint i just said if i wanted to appear as one i would had omitted information. Again i was at wrong kicking those people and if you have contact with them in game say to them that i apologize.

Moving forward we know that in NN anything goes as long it isn't obvious harassment or any form of RMT.

[WinterLuna]

No problem, thanks for clearing that up

[Kosmos992k]

Again part 1 cause of 1000 character limitation

Edit your post for more characters, unless of course you are a mobile platform, the mobile page doesn't allow edits, but you can request the desktop page in some browsers, but small screens don't make editing easy.

@Kosmos: You can see Luna's comments for another view of what was happening in the NN at the time.

How is it broadly interpretation? It clearly states: "There are no restrictions apart on using it apart from the obvious harassment". So anything goes except harassing and RMT.

It's broad interpretation because you are *stating* things that were not said as fact.

Also by your definition i can flood the NN with it but i am not spamming it

If you are advertising your FC (for example), you're spamming. The patch notes laid out the terms, you can be kicked for spamming or harassment. The GM didn't mention spamming, but the official policy is laid out in the patch notes. You can argue over the definition of spamming if you like, but I won't since I already know the accepted definition in Internet settings.

And i can go as far as modify it every time so it's not the exact thing posted even if the message is the same so i will not post the exact same thing and be considered spam.

Nope, you can't, that's spamming and it shows intent to flood the channel.

In the end it clearly show this is one more feature that failed to meet the expectations of the player base.

No, in the end this shows that one or more people you kicked complained about you kicking them, and that your kick was unjustified, and SE agreed. That's all it really says.

Also in game you can't report for spamming. There are options
A) Harassment
B) Bugs
C) RMT
D) Suggestions

Spamming can fall under harassment and RMT. If something is damaging your enjoyment of the game, you can report it. For example someone standing in Ul'dah shouting endlessly about their FC can be reported for it, because it's a pain in the ass to deal with all the shouts, and in the end you have to disable the shout channel to avoid them. That falls under harassment.

So anything else reported as harassment is also abusing the report system.

How does that follow? Reporting someone for harassment is simply that. The people who evaluate the complaint woill check logs to determine if harassment took place. Making unjustified complaints repeatedly against another user is a form of harassment and yes you could get in trouble for it.

Also i agree that am at the wrong if that is the SE's stance on the usage of NN.

SE's stance is in the patch notes.

But also it wasn't the other players job to kick me from the channel cause i kicked people and he should had received the same punishment as me.

Possibly so, depending on the circumstances. But as far as your situation goes, what happens to the others is irrelevant. I'm sorry to say that you'll be judged for you actions regardless of what happens to others.

Also i don't play the victim i posted it so other mentors will not repeat the same mistake. As i commented before this makes a precedent to be used as a future reference moving forward.

I don't think you're playing victim, I think the ban was harsh, and i think that SE will have to come out and more specifically layout what kinds of thing would fall under spamming or harassment. But I'm not going to jump to a conclusion for the entire system based on the comments of a GM in one conversation, in one specific situation.

Look, you really have to stop and think. You have power to kick players from a server wide channel. You in effect have moderation power. Use it wisely, and carefully. You know you still have the option to report players for something rather than kicking them. If you think a kick is justified, then surely a report is? In which case, do that. Kicking should be a last resort.

Let's also be sensible here about the power to kick in the Mentor Network. It is a moderation tool that gives you power over the ability of other players to participate. Any time you use that power it will be scrutinized, especially right now when it's all new.

[LisannaTargaryen]

No problem, thanks for clearing that up

See ya in game in 1 day and 3 hrs aprox. At least this thread serves the purpose of clearing the fog of what is allowed or not in NN.

[CosmicKirby]

I don't think you're playing victim, I think the ban was harsh,

I think the ban was a bit harsh as well, but uhh.

Worth that I took one for the team

Yeah, that is the definition of playing the victim.

I think it's rather funny that some people are taking the system so seriously. As I don't think it's a matter that deserves such a serious response, and further I don't think that the flaws actually impede how well one can help new players. (Although it doesn't seem to be helping as much as people hoped)