WAR MT Opener

[SpookyGhost]

1. Tomahawk is still good if you need to reposition a boss when you pull as OP has a shorter distance.
2. Putting BS at the start allows you to get in 1 BS before anything and then again during Maim/Eye/Berserk/etc.
3. Using Bloodbath after Berserk maximizes it's output, which is why it's used in the next free oGCD point.
4. The reason for using Thrill in place of IR is to allow IR to catch the FC/IB/Fracture as well as allow for Thrill to be used sooner rather than later, though as I said you can really fit it in wherever as long as it's still under the affect of the VIT pot.
5. Having the potion reach all the way to FC/IB is ideal, however the sooner you use your potion the sooner it'll be back up and if you use it after Berserk you're wasting potential damage just to boost 1 GCD, which imo is unoptimal.
6. VIT pot + Thrill is to give you maximum opening mitigation to allow both healers to DPS as much as possible while RoD is going, or just in general. Combining the two allows for maximization of Thrill's healing and eHP increase as it's based on max HP, which is increased after you use the VIT pot (as long as the VIT pot is still active, you'll get the full effect of the heal).

Any opener that doesn't use Berserk and IR but starts with Eye is likely to get hate ripped hard from them. Maybe a NIN could prevent it, but I really doubt it. My opener's intent is to generate massive threat to then ride until... well, as long as you can ride it, as well as incorporate Thrill with your opening VIT pot. As an example, in A5S if the Thrill doesn't catch the cleaves (which I believe it should), you'll still have Vengeance + RI available for them. Having access to these, as well as Holmgang, means that using Thrill at the start to create a large HP buffer is generally (imo) a good idea. I could be wrong, I'm open to discuss it, but I don't buy "you already have enough mitigation" as bosses auto pretty heavily now and allowing healers as much time in their opener to DPS seems like the ideal way to go.

e: Also, you'll gain more DPS from getting the highest threat lead possible as it will allow for more time in Deliverance as well as allow you to put up Path as MT more often (which is a DPS loss, but can be extremely valuable if needed).

[Merkava]

1. Tomahawk is still good if you need to reposition a boss when you pull as OP has a shorter distance.

This is true but 90% of the cases position of the boss is pretty much irrelevant right at the very start, most tanks just place bosses towards the middle facing away from the party, as you said yourself...

you'll gain more DPS from getting the highest threat lead possible as it will allow for more time in Deliverance as well as allow you to put up Path as MT more often (which is a DPS loss, but can be extremely valuable if needed).

So yeah, More enmity is more desirable in most situations. The rule, not the exception. The only time I'd want to use Tomahawk is when I want to move the boss TOWARDS the group (i.e. the Second boss in Stone Vigil). If I need to position the boss anywhere away from the party then positioning isn't a problem with overpower as you'll be moving in that direction anyway.

2. Putting BS at the start allows you to get in 1 BS before anything and then again during Maim/Eye/Berserk/etc.

It's about the same if you place BS right after Eye, usually BS is up around the same spot in your rotation during your next cycle + 1 GCD, i.e. if you used it right after tomakawk it should be available right after heavy swing (before your next Maim). It really makes very little difference if you delay it two GCDs, except that you're going to hit harder with it and generate slightly more enmity. If you feel happy placing it so early then go ahead, it makes very little difference in the long term. You'll be able to throw in as many BS either way.

3. Using Bloodbath after Berserk maximizes it's output, which is why it's used in the next free oGCD point.

Bloodbath's Maximum output is done as long as it lasts for the entire duration of Berserk, if it lasts longer before or after berserk does not lower its efficiency at all. Bloodbath lasts an entire 10 seconds longer than Berserk so if you cast berserk within those 10 seconds you're at maximum efficiency.

4. The reason for using Thrill in place of IR is to allow IR to catch the FC/IB/Fracture as well as allow for Thrill to be used sooner rather than later, though as I said you can really fit it in wherever as long as it's still under the affect of the VIT pot.

The same can be said about every other cooldown? Why burn a cooldown you don't need anyway? Thrill is kinda like the equivalent of Rampart or Shadowskin for Warrior (roughly a 20% boost in mitigation). The sooner its used it will be available again, I just don't see why you'd burn it when most bosses don't start hitting hard right away, if there is some sort of tankbuster coming in during the opener then sure, go ahead. But otherwise? It's kinda just a waste of a cooldown. I wouldn't use it on EVERY opener.

5. Having the potion reach all the way to FC/IB is ideal, however the sooner you use your potion the sooner it'll be back up and if you use it after Berserk you're wasting potential damage just to boost 1 GCD, which imo is suboptimal.

Most encounters will be over before you can ever use a pot again anyway and the difference in seconds isn't going to matter in a fight long enough to give you the chance to throw in two pots. That extra GCD (Fell Cleave) is a sizeable chunk of your DPS so yeah, boosting it as much as possible is in your interest so, IMO, it seems suboptimal to place it there that early.

6. VIT pot + Thrill is to give you maximum opening mitigation to allow both healers to DPS as much as possible while RoD is going, or just in general. Combining the two allows for maximization of Thrill's healing and eHP increase as it's based on max HP, which is increased after you use the VIT pot (as long as the VIT pot is still active, you'll get the full effect of the heal).

This is true but why need it during an opener? Most of the time you don't need THAT much mitigation as you pull. I'd rather have thrill ready when i need it and not "as early as possible".

Any opener that doesn't use Berserk and IR but starts with Eye is likely to get hate ripped hard from them. Maybe a NIN could prevent it, but I really doubt it.

This could be true since, like i said, my opener is a work in progress. The patch is too new and I haven't had the opportunity to properly test it under fire. All I can say is as followed...
A) With a NIN the opener generates a LOT of enmity so it's a none-issue.
B) Without a NIN I have had no problem keeping hate from most DPS, the ONLY thing that worries me are Dragoons as I haven't had the opportunity to test it with a really good dragoon.

So no, any opener that doesn't use IR and Zerk right at the start won't loose hate right away, that's one of the reasons I use overpower instead of tomahawk and why I delay BS until after eye. Granted though, this point is up for argument, haven't tested it enough to stress the point. But I believe that it's something worth experimenting with as there is a thing as too much hate and it doesn't give you any tangible benefit as WAR benefits from using its enmity combo within it's DPS rotation.

My opener's intent is to generate massive threat to then ride until... well, as long as you can ride it, as well as incorporate Thrill with your opening VIT pot. As an example, in A5S if the Thrill doesn't catch the cleaves (which I believe it should), you'll still have Vengeance + RI available for them. Having access to these, as well as Holmgang, means that using Thrill at the start to create a large HP buffer is generally (imo) a good idea.

i haven't done A5S just yet so I can't honestly comment, you could be right but, like i said, if there are no tank busters at the very start it seems like a waste. If you will get hit hard right off the bat though, then your idea sounds extremely good.

I could be wrong, I'm open to discuss it, but I don't buy "you already have enough mitigation" as bosses auto pretty heavily now and allowing healers as much time in their opener to DPS seems like the ideal way to go.

If you're taking heavy damage right off the start the main healer will most likely focus on toping you off rather than pushing numbers as high as possible. Granted though, this boils down to the amount of damage intake during the initial pull. If it's high then sure but if it's just boss auto-attacking with a few cleaves then it might be best to just save it. Most healers will want to play it safe as they are learning regardless (at least the main healer).

e: Also, you'll gain more DPS from getting the highest threat lead possible as it will allow for more time in Deliverance as well as allow you to put up Path as MT more often (which is a DPS loss, but can be extremely valuable if needed).

This is actually very true, if we assume that you're going to open and stay as MT then you are probably right but a few things...
IMO,

A) Bosses in 4 man content don't hit hard enough to justify Path, you'll be sticking to Eye -> Butchers and that already generates a lot of enmity.
B) In most raid situations WAR is hardly asked to do the initial pull so it's probably best to depend on the MT to generate as much hate as possible for you to use Path reliably when a tank swap is necessary.

Granted, like you said, I'm still experimenting so I'm also open for suggestions. This is mostly my preliminary ideas.