The Developers Need to Start Surveying Players After Every Patch

[Uriel_Kross]

This has been bothering me for awhile, Tanks did not get nerfed they returned to what their class was meant to do. Sure they took a hit to dps but now hold aggro better and get more HP with the new gear. And the devs have nothing to do with tanks being unpopular, tanking is a hard job with little room for mistakes because a mistake by a tank can wipe the group and not everyone is cut out for it. Lastly you don't play a tank to dps just as you would not play a dps to tank or a healer to dps.

[therpgfanatic]

This has been bothering me for awhile, Tanks did not get nerfed they returned to what their class was meant to do. Sure they took a hit to dps but now hold aggro better and get more HP with the new gear. And the devs have nothing to do with tanks being unpopular, tanking is a hard job with little room for mistakes because a mistake by a tank can wipe the group and not everyone is cut out for it. Lastly you don't play a tank to dps just as you would not play a dps to tank or a healer to dps.

Only response I am going to make to the "tanking matter" people are focusing on, rather than the fact SE doesn't conduct player surveys before making substantial changes to game mechanics.

Tanks did not have trouble "tanking". So we didn't "return" to what we were meant to do.

PLD had issues because of lack of DPS, which is a problem that impacts gameplay outside of end-game raids (it impacts solo questing and DF runs, too, by creating frustrations WAR and DRK do not experience). But it impacted desirability for end-game raids because players in progression want to get every possible advantage they can to clearing content, so they always always always gravitate toward the tank which does the most DPS. This happens in every MMORPG, whether it is EQ, World of Warcraft or Ragnarok Online. Adding three tanks in Heavensward and making DRK the 2nd best DPS tank is the #1 reason why they are chosen as the 2nd best, while PLD and its DPS issues is the most undesirable. This remains to be the case due to lack of AoE and the need to do a three hit low enmity combo to apply our DoT -- doesn't matter how strong the DoT is if it is difficult to apply while maintaining hate. Flash might maintain hate on a group of mobs, but it contributes nothing to DPS like the AoE for WAR and DRK does. All these peculiar designs contribute to the PLD DPS issues and none of it was addressed by these changes. A PLD does the same amount of work tanking as a DRK and WAR player does, but receives a substantially lesser result. As the vast majority of MMO players view themselves as min-maxers, that PLD is not a min-maxed role leads to its undesirability.

Furthermore, when I resppecced my PLD from STR to VIT, I gained a couple hundred points of HP. The VIT change only has an impact on WARs due to Defiance boosting their HP pool based on its base. It makes absolutely no difference to PLD or DRK, and is actually a rather silly change in a game that allows players to choose where to put their bonus stat points (it's the illusion of customization). So while PLD may have had some abilities buffed, it lost its max DPS potential for no defensive benefit at all. That is what people are upset about.

Furthermore, people quoting "Holy Trinity" design for tanks as "high defense, low damage" have a poor understanding of game design theory. Holy trinity type of character mechanic design has appeared in nearly every FF game you have ever played, yet the melee characters still do tons of damage while also having abilities like Cover or taunts. There's nothing inherent about Holy trinity design that requires tanks to be the weakest DPS in the game in order to balance content. Furthermore Holy Trinity in MMOs first occured in World of Warcraft in response to the historical four roles (the fourth was controller) from DikuMud-like games such as Everquest. The controller role was erased and its utility divided between tanks, damage dealers and healers. That's what Holy trinity design actually means. One of the key issues in FFXIV design is outside of Sleep, there isn't much controlling happening which the tank isn't doing by positioning, and much of this has to do with the heavy emphasis on puzzle solving in boss encounter design in FFXIV. I could go on and on about this, but it's beside the point.

I should point out in Dikumud games like Everquest, tanks tended to have equal DPS output to damage dealer roles and this continued in WoW and other games of its ilk. FFXIV is the first game in a long time where I have seen tanks intentionally do low DPS and it accounts for why lack of tanks is such a critical issue in FFXIV. It's been a resolved issue in WoW every since they put tanking Paladin DPS on par with Warriors and Death Knights, which was like a decade ago. Warrior in WoW was always very close to damage dealer DPS.

As I said before, this thread is about the lack of surveys. I used the recent tanking nerf as an example of something that could have been avoided if SE conducted surveys.

[Dante_V]

Only response I am going to make to the "tanking matter" people are focusing on, rather than the fact SE doesn't conduct player surveys before making substantial changes to game mechanics.



Furthermore, when I resppecced my PLD from STR to VIT, I gained a couple hundred points of HP. The VIT change only has an impact on WARs due to Defiance boosting their HP pool based on its base. It makes absolutely no difference to PLD or DRK, and is actually a rather silly change in a game that allows players to choose where to put their bonus stat points (it's the illusion of customization). So while PLD may have had some abilities buffed, it lost its max DPS potential for no defensive benefit at all. That is what people are upset about.

First Square isn't required to listen to your personal requests, nor should they have to consider things outside of overall playing experience which varies wildly from player to player. While they do take into consideration the community's thoughts in the end it is ultimately their game. Also even if they did implement features solely based upon player feedback, there is no guarantee that your feedback would be represented as such as it would likely be to the tune of the majority of feedback as opposed to yours alone. To this degree square absolutely does listen to players ala fixing things such as mudra lag, raid mechanics, and various other things. Just because they aren't listening to exactly what you want doesn't mean that they are not listening. What if they just don't agree with what you say?

This is one of the few games I can honestly say that genuinely considers player input, sometimes for better or even worse, but they do. It's self evident. In fact I can name input that I personally put into the game on a thread here on this forum about QoL requests. I requested that the names of the aetherytes location be put on the map (in ishgard) when you hover your mouse over the aetherytes so that we didn't have to guess where we were teleporting and that the repair for airships along with the airship venture map be accessible without the need for repair materials or cereluem tanks in our inventory. One of the mods here directly quoted my post and a bunch of others in response, sent it to them, and BAM... the next update they were there. Granted these are QoL things and fairly minor, but I can say that I've never had a developer take such things into account to that degree. Just because they aren't actively pinging every player with an email doesn't mean they aren't listening, they are I promise.

You said you aren't going to be playing anymore so then what is the point of then meeting the demands of people who are no longer players?
You seemed to be able to find this group and likewise I'm sure that others wishing to submit their input will take the same proactive stance in doing so as the thousands before have done.

Anyhow the best of luck to you in the future!

[Spawnie]

This has been bothering me for awhile, Tanks did not get nerfed they returned to what their class was meant to do. Sure they took a hit to dps but now hold aggro better and get more HP with the new gear. And the devs have nothing to do with tanks being unpopular, tanking is a hard job with little room for mistakes because a mistake by a tank can wipe the group and not everyone is cut out for it. Lastly you don't play a tank to dps just as you would not play a dps to tank or a healer to dps.

like sephirot normal run yesterday... the tank decided he wanted to test somethin and ended up wiping the whole group lol

[FoxyAreku]

There's plenty of feedback in other places. Like here, for example.

[TroySoFab]

Agreed! There should be some type of in game survey system in place to gauge actual players feeling about content and job changes. In addition to this I think SE should post the results of said surveys here on the forums or on lodestone.

[Nightingaile]

Why have you necro'd this thread?

[Sotaris]

Why have you necro'd this thread?

I guess it's somewhat relavant still in 2021.