Are there more tanks playing now?

[Edewen]

The primary job of a tank is to hold threat whether it is worse or not. If 4 off the bat lets your group aoe to their hearts content, or lets you focus more on dps and dodging, then do it, it is only 4 GCDs. I very likely don't need 4 flashes depending on the groups dps but it works. Im sorry that the tank changes are a culture shock to many of the tanks who adored pretending to be a dps, but the fact of the matter is that tanks have 3 main priorities in a specific order.

1. Holding threat
2. Staying alive
3. Killing things

This is what tank is meant to be. They aren't intended to be dps powerhouses. They are intended to have to actually work for threat, not just pop a single flash and then have everything glued to them bc they are wearing all dps gear. Is my way cheap, yes. But it is effective and is no different from a tank realizing halfway through a pull that they need to flash another couple times. Either way it is the same amount of flash.

[Ironos]

snip.

Please stop that. I actually welcome the changes. The only point I'm making, which you still seem to be missing so I'll making it even more obvious, is:

Tank's aggro generation is worse than before 3.2, which is where some of the complaints are coming from.

It has nothing to do with tanks wanting to be DPS powerhouses, it's not a "culture shock" thing, it's just that people are not used to having to use their enmity generation skills as often. Give it more than one whole day for people to adjust and the complaints will fade. I'll reiterate, most tanks aren't having issues holding aggro, it's that good DPS are closing the threat lead faster/more often than before.

[Sarcatica]

For pally, aoe threat is easy. A joke even.

And to be clear, my pallys ilvl is only now at 193 with a 210 weapon, holding against much higher dps.

Just to say, skill > gear. Any DPS-ers can have all the gear they can get, but if they aren't good, they will NEVER pull aggro off any tank, quoting shit 500dps blablabla.

And to say, you don't ever need that much enmity lead. It's a point that has been raised many times, spamming too much halones = way less dps. Do your math. It's not just "OH I AM TANK, I WILL JUST TAKE AGGRO, MY JOB AIN'T TO DPS" kind of game.

[eagledorf]

Start every pull with either rampart or conv because you don't want to be THAT guy. Then Flash spam. Do this until you are about 2k mp. 4-5 flashes.

This is absolutely the wrong way to play Paladin. You should try to use Flash in such a way as to maximize the length of time you get the Blind debuff, then avoid Flash as much as possible because it does nothing useful after that.

Because you have the Blind debuff and because you want to use your MP as fast as possible, it's preferable to not use Rampart at the pull unless necessary and use Clemency as soon as possible, then use it around when the Blind wears out and you start spreading your DoT, recovering MP for more Clemency casts. Of course depending on the size of the pull you might Rampart at the pull and then use something strong like Sentinel at that later point, but basically you get my point.

If the hate has been reduced enough to require Flash spamming, I think that's a terrible thing. That removes all the interest from PLD tanking. Incidentally, I haven't noticed a huge difference and can still tank in SwO, but using any more hate skills at all is a very heavy penalty on PLD since it's a disproportionate DPS loss and Flash even reduces your self-healing.

[FaizeD]

I... haven't really had any problems with tank enmity in DF and I normally go balls out on WHM. Whatever. I guess some tanks will roll with the punches and adapt their play-style/rotation, and the bads will cling to the meta of yesterday and complain. Complain about how lower tank dps = bad for raids. Even though the new raids have specifically been geared around reduced tank damage.

Furthermore, the "bad healer" idea cuts both ways. For every afk, overcure, no dps healer, there was an undegeared sub-15k HP full STR tank that didn't mitigate on pulls and couldn't stance dance their way out of a wet paper bag. They all thought they were perfect meta tanks too.

[Syzygian]

Tank stances generate significantly more enmity than they did before. I had my MCH do his full burst opener on a dummy and I was able to rip aggro from him with a single Grit non-DA PS combo and nothing else.

The issue isn't enmity, its that we can't DPS and hold enmity with the laughable ease with which we did so before. We have to pick between the two and be intelligent and strategic. I find it exciting.

My only beef is that PLD and DRK have to use their hate combos a bit more now, which is an indirect DPS nerf that WAR did not suffer due to BB being its top DPS (even as hard as they are crying about the nerf to Equilibrium).

[eagledorf]

It's pretty rare for the healer to rip in DF contents. It's more likely to be a problem in raids or primals with jumps where hate continues to accumulate.

If somebody rips, it's usually a MNK or SMN. If you pull fast enough that a SMN can start with DWT and have a MNK hate is actually slightly challenging.

My only beef is that PLD and DRK have to use their hate combos a bit more now, which is an indirect DPS nerf that WAR did not suffer due to BB being its top DPS (even as hard as they are crying about the nerf to Equilibrium).

Yes, this is annoying. It's especially bad for Paladin since for DRK if you swapped out a Delirium it's only a 10 potency loss while PLD loses 90 now.

[Syzygian]

It's especially bad for Paladin since for DRK if you swapped out a Delirium it's only a 10 potency loss while PLD loses 90 now.

Its indirectly a loss of at least 140 potency on top of that since the 884 MP you miss out on by not using a Syphon combo robs you of a DASE at the very least. This is for some reason very hard to explain to WARs. D:

[Isala]

Tank's aggro generation is worse than before 3.2, which is where some of the complaints are coming from.

According to the maths I saw, we went from a 2.3x enmity multiplier, to a 2.7x multiplier. Because that offsets a 20% reduction in damage completely, really.

[Ragnorak]

So many tanks have left the tanklyfe because of nerfs but im Tank4lyfe theres a reason i main tank and it aint for massive numbers (altho it was nice doing crazy dps). So bye bye is alls i gotta say