[3.0] Craftsmanship and Control bonus parameters will be added to Souls of the Crafte

[Mindy_Macready]

So two people splitting the profit of the finished product (you and the crafter that made your mat) makes it unprofitable? Or is the person making the mat getting a bigger profit for his one specialist synth than the omnicrafter for his two specialist synths?

If person A had all specialists unlocked via alts, and was competing with person B, who only had 3 specialists, for any specialist crafts that required specialist mats that person B did not have, he would be at a disadvantage price-wise, because he would never be able to escape a crafter's fee.

[StouterTaru]

If person A had all specialists unlocked via alts, and was competing with person B, who only had 3 specialists, for any specialist crafts that required specialist mats that person B did not have, he would be at a disadvantage price-wise, because he would never be able to escape a crafter's fee.

You're ignoring person C, who collects that crafter's fee.

Person A does 2 specialist synths for X amount of gil profit
Persons B and C each do 1 specialist synth and split that same X amount of gil profit

If person A is selling for inflated prices, then persons B and C stand to each make a nice profit by competing with person A. If person A is selling for a tiny profit, then it's not specialization lockouts that's keeping competition low.

[Mindy_Macready]

You're ignoring person C, who collects that crafter's fee.

Person A does 2 specialist synths for X amount of gil profit
Persons B and C each do 1 specialist synth and split that same X amount of gil profit

If person A is selling for inflated prices, then persons B and C stand to each make a nice profit by competing with person A. If person A is selling for a tiny profit, then it's not specialization lockouts that's keeping competition low.

I have no idea where you're going with this at this point. If person A has all specialists available to him via alts, and person B doesn't, person A will be able to craft any specialist craft requiring specialist mats at a lower price than person B, because he's not carrying specialist crafting fees with him. Person A could just price out person B, to the point where he can't compete, and will thus not buy person C's mats.

[StouterTaru]

I have no idea where you're going with this at this point. If person A has all specialists available to him via alts, and person B doesn't, person A will be able to craft any specialist craft requiring specialist mats at a lower price than person B, because he's not carrying specialist crafting fees with him. Person A could just price out person B, to the point where he can't compete, and will thus not buy person C's mats.

And Person A continues to sell for no profit just to be a jerk? What happened to all the collusion leading to artificially inflated prices?

Where there is a profit in the synth, there will be competition. If nobody is willing to buy for more than the cost of materials, the market will be stale. Specialist lockouts won't change that. If person A is willing to spend several hours a day crafting top level recipes for no profit, they might be able to keep everyone else out.

[Mindy_Macready]

And Person A continues to sell for no profit just to be a jerk? What happened to all the collusion leading to artificially inflated prices?

Person A would be making a profit. I'm not sure where anybody stated otherwise. Person A could also be a jerk and just drive people out until they've given up trying to sell.

[StouterTaru]

Person A would be making a profit. I'm not sure where anybody stated otherwise. Person A could also be a jerk and just drive people out until they've given up trying to sell.

If person A is making a profit, then Person B can make a profit from buying Person C's mats and making the same item. If person C is selling their mats for so much that person B can't make a profit, then their stuff won't sell and they will either lower the price or someone will come in and undercut them.

Either way, the grossly inflated prices won't be there as long as there is a steady supply of base materials (which are cheap esoteric items and unspoiled nodes). In any event, the huge profits on high level items will be made in the first few weeks, like always. Afterwards, prices across the board will drop.

[Mindy_Macready]

If person A is making a profit, then Person B can make a profit from buying Person C's mats and making the same item. If person C is selling their mats for so much that person B can't make a profit, then their stuff won't sell and they will either lower the price or someone will come in and undercut them.

Person A can also sell at cost or at a loss until Person B stops trying the market. In any given situation, Person A will always be able to price their product below Person B, because Person C isn't running a charity. Worst case scenario, if Person C can't sell the product, Person C stops selling the product, and then Person B has no recourse to even craft the thing.

Given the specialist requirements, you already have less competition so undercutting isn't as big an issue (the short-sightedness I've mentioned before).

[StouterTaru]

Person A can also sell at cost or at a loss until Person B stops trying the market. In any given situation, Person A will always be able to price their product below Person B, because Person C isn't running a charity. Worst case scenario, if Person C can't sell the product, Person C stops selling the product, and then Person B has no recourse to even craft the thing.

If they can sell for a profit, there will be a market and stuff will sell, period.

You're describing the same situation that has always existed in crafting, except mixing in specialist lockouts and pretending it's new and different. You won't be on equal ground with someone that puts in more time/effort/money into it. Specialist lockouts didn't create that fact of life, and removing them won't change it. If you could change that truth, crafting would be worthless.

[Mindy_Macready]

If they can sell for a profit, there will be a market and stuff will sell, period.

You're describing the same situation that has always existed in crafting, except mixing in specialist lockouts and pretending it's new and different. You won't be on equal ground with someone that puts in more time/effort/money into it. Specialist lockouts didn't create that fact of life, and removing them won't change it. If you could change that truth, crafting would be worthless.

You can't make a profit if you don't sell anything. If you're a buyer and see product A at a cheaper cost than product B, you're going to buy product A. If Crafter A can always make a profit while undercutting Crafter B because Crafter A isn't dealing with crafters fees on specialist mats, then Crafter A will always sell before Crafter B, and Crafter B's product will linger unless he is willing to sell basically at cost.

I don't think I can explain this any clearer, sorry.

[StouterTaru]

I don't think I can explain this any clearer, sorry.

Your assumption is that the "crafter's fee" that person C is charging for one specialist synth is higher than person A's profit from two different specialist synths, at which point it won't sell.

If you're a crafter, you probably know that the duty finder works for crafting too, and several crafters will do a synth for cheap if you can provide the mats.