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  1. #71
    Player
    Roth_Trailfinder's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    1,842
    Character
    Roth Trailfinder
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by StouterTaru View Post
    Your assumption is that the "crafter's fee" that person C is charging for one specialist synth is higher than person A's profit from two different specialist synths, at which point it won't sell.

    If you're a crafter, you probably know that the duty finder works for crafting too, and several crafters will do a synth for cheap if you can provide the mats.
    Person A is not seeking a profit on two separate synths though. That's what you are overlooking.
    Person A is not taking his Pterodactyls and seeing what profit he can get for making Pterodactyl Straps. He is taking his Pterodactyls, making the P Straps, then turning that into an Adamantite Francesca.

    Person B is buying someone else's P Straps and trying to use the sale of the Adamantite Francesca to cover the cost of the P Leather, other materials for the Francesca, and make whatever profit he can. If Person B is lucky, he can find someone (Person C, or perhaps get in touch with Person A) willing to turn his Pterodactyls into P Straps for him, at a lower cost than the P Strap fetches on the Board, but it still increases his overhead. (Yes, I know, Pterodactyl Straps are not Specialist-Only anymore. They still get the point across.)


    And the person hurt most by all of this is not A, B, or C - it is the BUYER. Persons A and B are trying to sell for the highest they can, while still actually selling their products. Lacking the need to pay off Person C, Person A can sell for less than Person B, often to the point that Person B cannot even make any profit. Person A is still able to make a profit, however, because he's not depending upon someone else to provide materials for him.

    The Specailization system prevents other people from intruding into the markets that A, B, and C are operating in, however, for they lack the requisite Specializations. That minimizes the competition, the need, to reduce the prices they are putting them up for. This ends up hurting the market, by reducing the number of sales (fewer can, or want to, pay), thereby reducing the total profit the crafters are able to generate, which reduces the amount they can craft to put up for sale, in a vicious cycle.

    The rampant undercutting was a result of too much supply, not enough demand, for any given item. The Specialization system does nothing at all to address the demand - it only cuts sharply into the supply. Specialist-only recipes are, and have been, bad for the market as a whole, regardless of how well a few individuals have been able to use the Specialization-Only recipes to take Gil from others and line their pockets with it.
    (0)

  2. #72
    Player
    vigioX-Sun's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    272
    Character
    Vigiox Sun
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Miner Lv 90
    Blacksmith IV book is specialist lock,they did it again !! The lock again whyyyy?!!
    (0)

  3. #73
    Player
    Silverbane's Avatar
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    Feb 2015
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    1,125
    Character
    Z'nnah Silverbane
    World
    Halicarnassus
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by vigioX-Sun View Post
    Blacksmith IV book is specialist lock,they did it again !! The lock again whyyyy?!!
    All the new 3-Star recipes are Specialist recipes. Specialization is going to be pretty important now. It's not for Relic mats anymore, it's for most if not all of the high-profit, high-end crafts. Which are very difficult to HQ BTW.
    (0)

  4. #74
    Player
    Duuude007's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,954
    Character
    Duuude Bismarck
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Armorer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by OoglieBooglie View Post
    Only problem is that now I have to bother a friend to do it, and they in turn have to ask me to do stuff, instead of doing it on our own time whenever. It's pretty inconvenient.
    Exchanging goods for services? Say it ain't so! The nerve of a healthy market!
    (0)

  5. #75
    Player
    Mindy_Macready's Avatar
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    Aug 2014
    Posts
    221
    Character
    Mindy Macready
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Person A has 0 crafter's fee on the intermediate mat in order to gain an edge on selling the final product at a price competitors can't match. That assumption is not really far-fetched.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duuude007 View Post
    Exchanging goods for services? Say it ain't so! The nerve of a healthy market!
    This answer always ignores the notion that such a system existed before specialist recipes existed, but it sure does sound witty.
    (0)
    Last edited by Mindy_Macready; 02-24-2016 at 03:47 AM.

  6. #76
    Player
    StouterTaru's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    3,463
    Character
    Stouter Taru
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder View Post
    Person A is not seeking a profit on two separate synths though. That's what you are overlooking.
    Person A is not taking his Pterodactyls and seeing what profit he can get for making Pterodactyl Straps. He is taking his Pterodactyls, making the P Straps, then turning that into an Adamantite Francesca.
    Company A is trying to sell a phone that they made from scratch at a profit of $50 per.
    Company B is trying to sell a comparable camera for a comparable phone to Company C for $50 profit per.

    Company B expects to make as much profit for doing half as much as Company A, and then cries because nobody buys their cameras. Then company D comes along and sells cameras to Company C for a reasonable price. Capitalism at work.
    (0)

  7. #77
    Player
    Mindy_Macready's Avatar
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    Aug 2014
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    221
    Character
    Mindy Macready
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    That analogy has literally nothing to do with how omni-crafting specialists work and their advantage over everybody else, and I would claim that is not "capitalism at work" at all.
    (0)

  8. #78
    Player
    Duuude007's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,954
    Character
    Duuude Bismarck
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Armorer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Mindy_Macready View Post
    That analogy has literally nothing to do with how omni-crafting specialists work and their advantage over everybody else, and I would claim that is not "capitalism at work" at all.
    Capitalism isn't a place where the rich can create monopolies and just get richer.

    Oh, wait. That is exactly what capitalism allows.
    (0)

  9. #79
    Player
    Zorlinta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    229
    Character
    Zorlinta Freespirit
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 60
    So in the end, like or not, specialist system came to stay (at least now for couple months more).
    (0)

  10. #80
    Player
    MomomiMomi's Avatar
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    Aug 2014
    Posts
    2,527
    Character
    Momomi Momi
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder View Post
    ...
    You're ignoring/contradicting/assuming a lot of stuff here.

    Person B is buying someone else's P Straps and trying to use the sale of the Adamantite Francesca to cover the cost of the P Leather, other materials for the Francesca, and make whatever profit he can. If Person B is lucky, he can find someone (Person C, or perhaps get in touch with Person A) willing to turn his Pterodactyls into P Straps for him, at a lower cost than the P Strap fetches on the Board, but it still increases his overhead.

    . . .Persons A and B are trying to sell for the highest they can, while still actually selling their products. Lacking the need to pay off Person C, Person A can sell for less than Person B, often to the point that Person B cannot even make any profit. Person A is still able to make a profit, however, because he's not depending upon someone else to provide materials for him.
    Why would Person B do this if he knows he can't compete with Person A's price? He wouldn't. The demand is there, but it's looking for a lower price than is being offered. It won't sell. The supply is not being depleted. If Person A can cut into his price and still make a profit, then so can Person C. And so he will, because if he does not, Person D (whom you conveniently omitted), someone who is willing to take the cut, will.

    And the person hurt most by all of this is not A, B, or C - it is the BUYER.
    But you said that the problem here is that Person A can sell cheaper than Person B + C. Mind explaining how the buyer is being hurt by lower prices than what B + C had on offer?

    The Specailization system prevents other people from intruding into the markets that A, B, and C are operating in, however, for they lack the requisite Specializations. That minimizes the competition, the need, to reduce the prices they are putting them up for. This ends up hurting the market, by reducing the number of sales (fewer can, or want to, pay), thereby reducing the total profit the crafters are able to generate, which reduces the amount they can craft to put up for sale, in a vicious cycle.
    Persons A, B, and C are multiple people all competing for each other. You know this, so I'm not sure why you exaggerate the number of people involved. There are multiple Person A's, B's and C's all competing with each other's prices. It really only takes a few to drive prices down. But there are far more than that all competing with each other.
    (0)
    Last edited by MomomiMomi; 02-24-2016 at 06:37 AM.

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