Goodbye strength tanks. Let us never be forgotten.

[Odett]

Didn't see the edit, my bad. Maybe I am seriously misjudging something then because a difference of 200-300 dps between a good tank and an average dps seems like a pretty small gap to me. Even a difference of 300-400 dps between a good tank and a good dps of equal item level seems like a horribly small gap.

It's all good. How you see the gap difference is subjective, and there's not much to discuss with that, seeing as it's mostly a subjective matter. What I can say is that it requires much more effort for a tank to do 1.1k DPS than for a DPS of the same item level to pull that much, so i see it as their reward for understanding their job much deeper than a DPS who parsed the same does. There are other things to take into consideration as well, however, what content you're doing being being a better example.

Self healing, more DPS, and stronger group utility aside, another reason that so many tanks have gravitated towards strength is that no content in this game right now warrants more than 18k HP, as well as constant use of your tanking stance (this sounds a little off-topic in regards to our conversation, but see me through, here). Because of this, you could argue that because the lack of content present where in terms of group utility, DPS, and efficiency, you want a tank to be "tankier", is why you tend to see such a small margin between tank dps and damage-dealer dps. In order to pull the DPS that the Warrior in that group did, they would need to be in constant Deliverance, as well as burn through their defensive cooldowns in an offensive manner in order to accrue Abandon stacks. But now, go into a fight like Thordan EX, for example, which requires a tank to mitigate damage like hell, and the margin between Main tank DPS and damage-dealer DPS will be much bigger.

Are we talking about average savage dps here or average pug dps? Because my brother (who is the major source of the numbers I gave, he parses) says he almost never sees a dps break 1.2k in Void Ark or Alexander Normal and that the lowest dps in the party are often down at 800 or so. I'm talking about average pug dps here just to be clear. Random DF peoples.

I'm talking about the average DPS that a damage dealer should be doing at their item level, not the average DPS of people who play this game. If you're comparing a player who knows how to play their job, they should be compared to other players who know how to play their job. Comparing a good player to ones that don't have their level of skill as a basis for judging one job against another would be inaccurate for these purposes.

As a sidenote, while parsing can let you see your numbers and compare yourself to the rest of the players of the group, please keep in mind that context in which they are used. Item levels have to be taken into account, as well as job composition. Was there a DRG to buff BRD and MCH DPS? Where there 2 MNKS? Was one of the MNKS keeping up DK so the other one could constantly use Bootshine? Was there a BRD to buff caster DPS? Was there an Astrologian? Who were they using The Balance on? Was there a WAR to keep up Storm's Eye so the NIN didn't have to use Dancing Edge. Was the fight easy enough for the tank to trade mitigation for DPS and group utility when appropriate? Taking that into account, I'm using that information to tell you what the average DPS of a damage dealer SHOULD be at that item level, I'm not going to go into FF logs and tell you that a BLM shouldn't be parsing less than 2k DPS when I look up a fight that greatly benefits stationary casting.

[F_Maximillian]

I honestly don't understand what people think will change aside from hp and the suffix on your accessories. I still intend to stance dance and manage cooldowns while holding aggro as I did anyway. Only difference is now I don't have to have two sets of gear on me.

[Odett]

I honestly don't understand what people think will change aside from hp and the suffix on your accessories. I still intend to stance dance and manage cooldowns while holding aggro as I did anyway. Only difference is now I don't have to have two sets of gear on me.

If anything, we'll be more encouraged to stance dance due to HP bloat as well as PLD Oaths and Grit now being off the global cooldown.

[raymon]

If anything, we'll be more encouraged to stance dance due to HP bloat as well as PLD Oaths and Grit now being off the global cooldown.

i think they are still on the global cooldown, they just don't interupt combos now

[IndigoHawk]

I'm glad str tanks are gone and have no fondness for them.

There were two types of str tanks. The first is an endgame player who recognized that dps checks could be met with str tanking instead of waiting for dps to gear up. Devs should have long ago fixed this loophole. Dps checks should be met by dps, not by healers and tanks.

The second type of str tanks is someone who just wants to dps and doesn't like long queues. They often didn't have the mindset of a tank, aren't a team player, and make things harder on the team, especially the healer, to satisfy their own ego and need for large dps numbers. Good riddance.

As a healer I preferred vit tanks over str tank prima donnas, and as a tank, I went for a mix of str and vit so that it was a bit easier to hold aggro but still give the healer some extra cushion. If people had used a mix of str/vit for pugs, str tank would have been fine, but selfish str tanks went 100% str no matter how bad their gear and skill was.

[Galgarion]

HA HA HA HA! The joke's on YOU, Healer scum! Bads are always six months behind the curve! And they don't read forums or patch notes! YOU'LL BE DEALING WITH STRENGTH TANKS UNTIL THE NEXT EXPANSION!!!

LET CHAOS THRIVE!!!

[SaitoHikari]

In a way, the thread title is correct, in an ironic sense. Yes, STR tanks should never be forgotten. In the sense that they were among the pinnacle of bad mechanics design.

It had very little to do with what healers preferred or the DPS the tanks were capable of dishing out. It was the idea that tanks needed two sets of gear (and/or going to the extreme, the absolute top tanks needed pentamelded accessories while no other class really gave a damn) to be considered optimal, if not actually FUNCTION in the game depending on the twat level of their peers. On top of that, the reality is that the community also heavily emphasized one of the two sets (sometimes completely foregoing the set that the game had always pushed the classes towards in terms of loot rolls).

[kalasnikov]

Congratulations. You guys turned a simple farewell thread into bad healer meeting :/

[IzVale]

HA HA HA HA! The joke's on YOU, Healer scum! Bads are always six months behind the curve! And they don't read forums or patch notes! YOU'LL BE DEALING WITH STRENGTH TANKS UNTIL THE NEXT EXPANSION!!!

LET CHAOS THRIVE!!!

Here, eat a snickers. You always turn into a prick when you're hungry.

[JediFirefly]

Here, eat a snickers. You always turn into a prick when you're hungry.

I seriously LOL'd at this and pictured Joe Pesci talking about STR tanks lol.