Why should warriors get a free pass to all savage content?

[Starbirth]

with dps not being an issue anymore (if SE didn't screw up, but I think they learned the lesson from the AS3/4 fiasco), there is no need for WAR/DRK anymore. PLD/DRK is viable again even in progression (less dps but doesn't matter in mechanic driven fights)

Problem is WAR OT has more utility than DRK OT. Now the dream team is looking like PLD/WAR.

[Kuwagami]

Problem is WAR OT has more utility than DRK OT. Now the dream team is looking like PLD/WAR.

have a NIN in team and no need for WAR anymore ? NIN/DRK is a viable alternative to MNK/WAR

don't get me wrong. WAR is in a nice spot right now because it's better designed than the other 2 in terms of raid balance. But it's in no way a reserved spot if the dps isn't an issue anymore

[Reynhart]

have a NIN in team and no need for WAR anymore ? NIN/DRK is a viable alternative to MNK/WAR

They should swap either one potency or one effect so that slashing debuff is part of the optimal DPS rotation for NIN wether or not there's a WAR.

I'm pretty sure people would fine very funny that you'd need to adjust multiple jobs to be able to take down WAR from its mandatory spot

As for DPS, even if it's not an "issue", who would chose to kill things slower if they can have a WAR ?
It's not as if PLD or DRK offer something more or as much as WAR...and that's the problem.

[Launched]

As for DPS, even if it's not an "issue", who would chose to kill things slower if they can have a WAR ?
It's not as if PLD or DRK offer something more or as much as WAR...and that's the problem.

Groups do that all the time. In 3.0/3.1 plenty of groups took a MNK instead of DRG or NIN even though that worked out as less raidwide dps and the INT debuff was covered by a DRK already in the group. Groups took SMN over BLM in single target fights, MCH over BRD, AST over WHM or SCH. Any of those meant you weren't optimising your group, yet somehow taking PLD (or PLD+DRK) is absolutely awful and meant that you'd be weeks behind?

[Reynhart]

Any of those meant you weren't optimising your group, yet somehow taking PLD (or PLD+DRK) is absolutely awful and meant that you'd be weeks behind?

The problem lies with the world first race.
Those top players discovered than PLD can be a liability on extreme situations, and then, suddenly, it seems like PLD is the worst job ever.
I'm sure that, were Lucrezia or Elysium decided to swap a BLM for a SMN, even BLM would be "dead" in those parts.

Hivemind at its finest. Good luck to revert that back, now

[Kuwagami]

I'm pretty sure people would fine very funny that you'd need to adjust multiple jobs to be able to take down WAR from its mandatory spot

Actually it's not. Group balance is a tricky thing that does not rely on a single job's utility/performance but on synergy. Trading multiple jobs to get the most of your group is the basis (look the MCH/3melees comp vs bard + caster(s) ). Of course, this is only optimization and does not matter one bit once you overgear a content, or in mechanics driven fights.

with that said

The problem lies with the world first race.(

world first race is a special thing as you'll want to rush phases as fast as possible, ignore healing as much as possible to get more dps, etc... with world first in mind, you NEED to optimize the dps, and if that means ignoring X or Y job because they just can't push the numbers enough, then you'll ignore X or Y job. Once world first is done though, everything comes back to "what you are comfortable with", except for the idiots.

[Reynhart]

Actually it's not. Group balance is a tricky thing that does not rely on a single job's utility/performance but on synergy.

That's why those PLD buffs, although appreciated, are probably not enough. They keep adjusting PLD to be able to compete on its own (DPS wise, since everything revolves around DPS), whereas they should push it in a totally different direction. And DRK too.

Once world first is done though, everything comes back to "what you are comfortable with", except for the idiots.

Saddly, it still didn't come back to that. It's the first time we have more tanks than required by party setup, so it's understandable that it didn't occur until 3.0.

If they add another tank in 4.0, I'm pretty sure two of them will be seen as black sheep.

However, it is human nature that if there is a more efficient way, even if it is just a feeling, they will take it.

Another highlighted keyword.
It kept WAR out of MT spot for all 2.x, even though its toolkit was already very powerful (barring 2.0), just because healers felt that WAR was squishier...and in fact, raid DPS was higher with WAR MT/PLD OT back then.