Dear Square-Enix: You Forgot About Buffs to Dark Knight's Off-Tank Utility.

[Akasha_Carnelian]

Whilst DRK is lacking in OT utility, even moreso if you have a monk in your group, until we know what the new content has in terms of damage to tanks we still can't be absolutely certain which will win out, though through the typing of this post I've become more aware of just how bad the situation is if PLD is now equal to DRK in damage. Warriors of course continue to win as they are the only tank that is still guarenteed their raid slot due to their well-rounded and synergistic skill set that has utility that is either unique to them or in the case of Storm's Eye more preferable to have them use over the ninja.

If the tank busters are all physical then that puts DRK in a worse place depending on how often they come out, otherwise DRK is fine in this regard. If there are a greater number of magical tank busters then PLD may be worse of depending on how often these are, yet they still can utilise their physical cooldowns for pre or post tank buster safety.

If damage needs to be done over more than 2/3 mobs and it isn't just a case of having the warrior pick them up then DRK pulls ahead in this regard as aoe damage is still something that SE seems blind to when it comes to PLD, although the Circle of Scorn DoT has 60% uptime.

If there are long periods of uptime without breaks DRK can keep up their optimal damage for longer than PLD after these adjustments whereas PLD would have to start using Clemency (5k+ heal), Stoneskin (2K barrier at 210 Full VIT HP levels), Flash or casting protect on someone that was just raised. However, any breaks in the fighting allow PLD to contribute to support so once you know a fight PLD can help in that regard whereas DRK has nothing it can do other than use any downtime to toggle darkside for better MP regen.

If tank swaps are a thing, and they always are in at least one fight in the tier, then switching to OT if there is nothing else to tank:
PLD Damage goes from roughly 93.5% to 110% (factoring in FoF used on Cooldown with 1/3rds uptime, in practice though properly timed use of FoF actually would add more than this) and lose Shield Swipe (as OT this would only be for damage)
DRK goes from 92% to 115% damage plus 37.5% uptime on a 10% attack speed buff and loses use of reprisal and low blow procs unless you want to take damage from cleaves. Or 119.3% if you factor in usage of Blood Weapon on cooldown, again in practice good timing will increase this.

Paladin has raid utility in spades and the only thing that may be invalidated is Clemency. DRK on the other hand has little and basically offers nothing when forced to OT if you already have a monk. Also as DRK's stun is used as damage tool when MT if it will need to stun it has to think more carefully before using as parry procs are not guarenteed.

DRK Raid Utility
Reprisal: 10% Damage reduction for a target with 2/3rds uptime, Only usable if you parry so almost only as OT, does a nice 210 potency hit too.
Delirium: Reduce target INT by 10%, but can't Stack with Dragon Kick. Is the DRK's strongest non-DA combo and second strongest combo otherwise. If you have a monk, unless there is more than one target all it does is damage.

PLD Raid Utility
Shield Bash: Chainable stun for when things actually can (and need to be) stunned.
Rage of Halone: Reduce target STR by 10%, has nothing that clashes with it, though it's on the PLD's now weakest combo.
Cover: Takes physical damage another party member would, useful when OT to help MT and useful to sheild a healer or DPS from physical mechanic damage that is not targetted in regards to enmity.
Spirit's Within: Silence, occasional thrown curveball usefullness.
Divine Veil: Next heal on you triggers a barrier on nearby party members equivalent to a stoneskin using the PLD's max HP. In I210 full VIT this is about 2k. I'm pretty sure this stacks with both shields and stoneskin so it's very useful for raidwide damage.
Clemency: 5k+ heal that takes roughly 40% of your max MP to cast, can be used on other party members to give yourself a heal of 50% of the heal number.

Edited for a slight oversight I had.

[FinalWolf]

What if delirium lowered magic defense?

[Brannigan]

Then Dark Knight would be required for every raid group with a caster in it.

[fm_fenrir]

PLD Damage goes from roughly 93.5% to 110% (factoring in FoF used on Cooldown with 1/3rds uptime, in practice though properly timed use of FoF actually would add more than this) and lose Shield Swipe (as OT this would only be for damage)
DRK goes from 80% to 115% damage plus 37.5% uptime on a 10% attack speed buff and loses use of reprisal and low blow procs unless you want to take damage from cleaves. Or 119.3% if you factor in usage of Blood Weapon on cooldown, again in practice good timing will increase this.

You're assuming 80% as if Darkside didn't apply as MT, when it does. DRK does 92% of its Grit-less damage (80% * 1.15) while MT, while PLD still does 85% of its non-oath damage in 3.2 (100% * 0.85). If your weighted math is correct, then PLD and DRK are functionally identical in damage modifiers when you look at burst phases, but DRK will continue to be superior as soon as FOF expires (read: for 60 seconds, DRK does 7% more damage than PLD does, with higher potency/enmity combos available to it).
Actually, now that I think about it, your weighted math doesn't include SwO's AA bonus, which is 11-16% depending on the delay of the sword. I'd estimate PLD gains 13% over a fight long enough for AA contributions to matter, plus the 15% they recover for dropping ShO.

If anything, DRK will be preferred for MT, simply because they offer slightly better mitigation and the best damage while coasting on that 20% tank stance. Defiance WAR might be close, but a Defiance WAR isn't being a Deliverance WAR, which is a waste of a WAR, right? Riiiight?

[Akasha_Carnelian]

Thanks for reminding me of these things, I got caught in trying to sort out what I trying to say.

I didn't factor in the auto attack boost of Sword Oath because I'm not well versed it how much damage it adds overall to the calculation. I know that Auto Attacks are roughly 100 potency and that Sword Oath adds a 50 potency hit to each Auto Attack. As it wasn't something I could quantify off-hand I omited it from calculations, I didn't mean to decieve.

If we add the low and high ends of the extra Sword Oath Damage we'd get 122.1% - 127.6%, but it's entirely likely that my maths is flawed. And until we know the ratios for STR and VIT for attack power it's only theoretically possible to calculate what adavantage PLD has by having greater base VIT if I recall correctly.

[fm_fenrir]

And until we know the ratios for STR and VIT for attack power it's only theoretically possible to calculate what adavantage PLD has by having greater base VIT if I recall correctly.

The VIT recalculation is just designed so that if you stack fending and VIT bonus points, you'll end up at or near where you are today in AP. Given that SE said they want to lower tank DPS slightly, I would guess that the recalculation will give lower AP than we have now, but the AP distribution will remain the same, with PLD the lowest of the three.
I'd stick to looking at the relative damage changes for having tank stance and bonuses up, especially since PLD and DRK have different potency combos available to them (in 3.2, the DPS combo is a difference of one AA worth of damage).

[Syzygian]

This thread isn't about personal DPS. Its about raid utility. A DRK OT has none, other than a debuff that is replaceable. Its DPS is not and was never the issue.

[Akasha_Carnelian]

Indeed, to wait and see was part of what I was saying with my long post. I wasn't getting overly detailed with the maths as Potencies and rotation differs between the tanks, there are people that will dedicate more time than me to deliberating which of PLD or DRK you'll want to complement a group's WAR for this raid tier.

Honestly if your raid group worth raiding with and aren't trying for world/server firsts then they shoul have no issues with either as the dev team still tries to design fights so that pretty much any 2 tank, 2 healer, 4 DPS comp of appropriate gear/skill will clear.

[fm_fenrir]

This thread isn't about personal DPS. Its about raid utility. A DRK OT has none, other than a debuff that is replaceable. Its DPS is not and was never the issue.

DRK's raid utility is that it takes the least penalty for being in tank stance (read: best MT). It is about personal DPS, because if you throw that out of consideration then yes, DRK is the worst tank choice in 3.2 because it offers absolutely nothing besides personal DPS.

[SpookyGhost]

All this talk of "best MT" and "best OT" makes me miss T12.