Serious discussion: 3.2 Materia slots, Tanking, Parry and You

[Launched]

Stuff

As much as you can try to avoid overhealing, it's always going to happen. That Cure might not top you off after an autoattack, but what about Regens? What about the fairy if your group has a SCH, and any aoe heals going out? What about your self healing? All of those will just end up healing the damage you didn't reduce when a parry didn't proc.

[Jpec07]

As much as you can try to avoid overhealing, it's always going to happen. That Cure might not top you off after an autoattack, but what about Regens? What about the fairy if your group has a SCH, and any aoe heals going out? What about your self healing? All of those will just end up healing the damage you didn't reduce when a parry didn't proc.

So...your argument is that because overhealing is just a thing that happens, and because there are other forms of mitigation or healing going out, parry should be avoided? I don't follow. Parry doesn't "automatically lead to overhealing" as so many people seem dead-set on insisting. It's a reduction in damage. Not a great one, I'll admit, but it does serve in many instances to offer 20% mitigation. By that logic, tanks should never use defensive cooldowns, because they will lead to overhealing. Rampart is a flat 20% damage reduction on all damage for PLD, which is equivalent to the mitigation parry can provide for a single hit, and yet I don't see anyone saying you shouldn't use it in case the healer isn't anticipating it's use and would overheal.

I have yet to see a compelling argument against Parry that doesn't try to convince people that shortening a fight somehow helps healers (which I'm not convinced of).

[Launched]

stuff

Im not going to try to convince you any more because all the relevant arguments have been brought up multiple times in multiple threads when you've mentioned parry. You can't seriously be comparing Rampart to parry though. You pop Rampart to guarantee that you mitigate the next hit or several hits because you're expecting then to do a lot of damage. You can never avoid using a cooldown and hope you get a parry proc to replace it on a tankbuster. Tankbusters need guaranteed mitigation and autoattacks are weak enough that the damage you might reduce would easily be covered by other sources of healing than Cure/Physick/Benific.

[SpookyGhost]

Parries on auto attacks basically mean nothing with Med 2, Regen, and a Fairy. If you parry 8 attacks or however many, they won't save any healer GCDs because the passive healing would cover the full extent of that auto regardless.

So where can parries effect healing? In the current meta (the one that's been around since 2.2-ish), one healer heals and the other healer spot heals and does DPS. In a situation where this is happening and the co-healer isn't going to be coming out of Cleric, tank busters and cleaves are a threat. This is where a parry would potentially affect GCD usage by the main healer, ie if they pre-cast a Cure 2 but expect to also use a Cure 1 afterwards and you parry that attack, they can see that they won't need the Cure 1 and spend that GCD doing something else. This is the same case with cleaves.

So for this to be a thing you need to be taking enough damage to need 1 healer to heal you twice, which is already questionable as both healers could just heal you once. Pre-casting heals before spike damage is a thing healers learn to do, as a tank's health being drastically low for the following autos is the thing you want to avoid especially if the boss does AOE damage afterwards. So if you took very little damage or none at all, you'd get overhealed from that 1 spell alone if it didnt meet a certain threshold.

Anyway, on top of it having this damage requirement (and specifically a solo-heal type deal) and needing that extra damage without the parry to not be completely covered by passive HoTs/Fairy, you also have to actually roll for that Parry (outside of RI, which doesn't really need to be considered aside from devaluing Parry for WARs). So, even with a bunch of Parry, you have very little chance to actually have the stars align and grant you this very specific circumstance wherein parrying something actually benefited the raid.

There's also the often cited situation wherein you are sacrificing damage related stats for Parry. Now, this may seem like it's a decision you're making (damage vs mitigation) but it's actually damage vs ... nothing. As I pointed out above, you are essentially increasing the % chance that the event can occur wherein you save your healer a single GCD. Maybe.

Even in a defensive meta damage stats won't suddenly be invaluable. If I can get by without stacking Parry (and I assure you, I can) then why would I invest in it? For me to put stock in that, damage intake would need to be so drastically high constantly and frequently that increasing parry chance is no longer an option but a necessity. This won't happen.

We could, however, see multistrike tank busters - which would theoretically increase the value of Parry depending on how healing is handled and whether or not that tank buster is physical.

Another thing that's important to realize is that Parry will do absolutely nothing when you're not tanking anything, whereas Crit/Det/SkS will always do something as long as you can make your GCD roll. Parry also does nothing against magic damage, so against something like Oppressor's cleave and tank buster Parry will do absolutely 0.

Basically. Parry is garbage. We've been through this a million times. Since 2.0 this has been repeated again, and again. It's bad. Accept it, embrace it. You haven't discovered some hidden tech or some new math that makes Parry worthwhile. It's just not a good stat.

[Syzygian]

Hmm, I just got an idea that might be fucking brilliant.

Remove all parry from tank gear and replace with crit. Upon entering tank stance, crit and parry stats are swapped and a passive 5-10% parry strength is added.

Bam. Best of both worlds.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

out with your logic spookyghost, I am now pulling for Parry stacking to be the 3.2 tank forum argument to fill the void left behind by STR v. VIT

[Anubis_Nephthys]

Parry is still garbage. We will meld crit/det/acc into our gear.

[Violette]

Hmm, I just got an idea that might be fucking brilliant.

Remove all parry from tank gear and replace with crit. Upon entering tank stance, crit and parry stats are swapped and a passive 5-10% parry strength is added.

Bam. Best of both worlds.

Y u guve bad idea. Just give parry a scaling effect similiar but lesser than det? Or also make it passively increase def/mdef? Or let it roll along with block? Or make is pseudo-random so it's better?

@the maths: yeah mb, original calculations were much longer and correct, those were slapdash so i missed a 0 on each

[HoodRat]

out with your logic spookyghost, I am now pulling for Parry stacking to be the 3.2 tank forum argument to fill the void left behind by STR v. VIT

Hmmm...Wrath stacks increase parry or parry rate...whatever it is, so war stacks parry. Pld has a shield and blocking takes priority over parry so pld should avoid it. So 3.2 war mt and pld ot.

Wait...that's why SE made it so divine veil doesn't affect the pld and why they gave pld a casted heal. It all makes sense now!

[Donaria]

This just be an over site but has anyone else thought about food and they way it's stats add up. When we look at food it gives no main stat bonus except vit. Will SE change the way vit on food is calculated, will it just be an overall hp% gain? I bring this up because they way things are a vit tank could just bring the highest vit food and get a dps gain.
Your thoughts?