That Garlean guy, what was his name? Gaius Van Baelsar

[CyrilLucifer]

Even if it was the Echo or not, we will need a ton of aether as a fuel to cast the Sword of Light.

Oh, I agree, but I edited and clarified a few things. I'm actually arguing we didn't need Hydaelyn's "fuel" because we were in very close contact with Lahabrea - much closer than the other times we've used it and certainly closer contact with him than any other Ascian since we were literally sharing a mindspace. We banished Lahabrea by cutting his connection rather than removing the plug, if you would. We weren't trying to unmake him, simply kick him out. It's the unmaking process that is energy-intensive.

I'm simply debating semantics, unless you'd prefer me throw around crackpot ideas?

[Belhi]

Actually its the Lahabrea thing that makes me think we can save Estinien. The Echo lets us break a lot of rules and I could easily see us being able to reach in and ripe Nidhogg or Estinien out the other.

[CyrilLucifer]

Actually its the Lahabrea thing that makes me think we can save Estinien. The Echo lets us break a lot of rules and I could easily see us being able to reach in and ripe Nidhogg or Estinien out the other.

I completely agree. The way we were able to separate Lahabrea and Thancred using our Echo by entering the shared mindspace pretty much cements it for me.

I mean, we Echo blasted Cid's amnesia away. That's just absurdity. Our Echo is broken and it makes sense why Elidibus would be interested.

[Kaiser-Ace]

I completely agree. The way we were able to separate Lahabrea and Thancred using our Echo by entering the shared mindspace pretty much cements it for me.

I mean, we Echo blasted Cid's amnesia away. That's just absurdity. Our Echo is broken and it makes sense why Elidibus would be interested.

He has the same power and a better understanding of it that us. The "Echo-Ex-Machina" is how the Acsians are Semi-Immortal to begin with. But, I notice as we get better at controlling and understanding the echo, it makes Elidibus get closer and closer to soiling his robe. He REALLY didn't like that we unlocked Blessing of Light Level 2. And Killing 2 Ascians and a Primal all in a short time period REALLY pissed him off.

[CyrilLucifer]

He has the same power and a better understanding of it that us.

This is purely conjecture, but I think it's because he does know so much more about it than we do that he is limited by it. Our character, instead, is seemingly limited only by our imagination in its capabilities; our lack of knowledge would allow us to be more experimental and creative. Unfortunately, it's hard to really show something like this in-game and the ideas would probably be put into our mouths by someone else.

Related to that last part (and spoilering, because I'm waaaaay off topic):

I know we like to say how the Scions/Alphinaud speak for us and we're basically just doing what everyone else says while being a mime, but the current relic quest has an interesting example of our character thinking for themselves and using their own ideas to finish powering their weapon up - and they're more effective than what others tell us, providing the last boost to our weapon.

Namely, no one tells us to use the past events to further our weapon's strength, but we went and "reimagined" Sohm Al, Aery, and Vault - and it worked.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Soooo, our ignorance is power and The Echo-Ception is our Trump card?

Yep, makes since. This is a Final Fantasy game after all. Since when has a protagonist needed to understand their power to win with it.

[Belhi]

You have to remember that although all echos share traits, all echos also have unique properties. Krile's sensitivity to the residue of a person's soul for example is her echos unique trait. We cant do that with ours. That would mean that on top of its general uses our echo would almost certainly have special properties that we have probably only really tapped passively or by accident and I'm almost certain that considering our importance with the Powers-That-Be that our echo has some particularly valuable properties.

I think our echo is the thing that made Hydaelyn pick us as her primary champion. Its really the only thing that is truly unique to us. There are plenty of strong and brave fighters around who are probably at our level and the blessing is something we were given because we were chosen not the other way round.

That's the WoL's real trick. Its that we can break the rules. We attacks can harm monsters who would otherwise shrug them off. We can take hits from such powers that mortals shouldn't be able to take. We can do that because our power is to gimp the overwhelming power of pseudo-gods and similar constructs. We remove their 'I Win' button and force them to fight on our level (mostly).

I think eventually we will have to master the echo but I think its purposely being left to the side for the time being. They need things to explore further into the future after all.

[Enkidoh]

You have to remember that although all echos share traits, all echos also have unique properties. Krile's sensitivity to the residue of a person's soul for example is her echos unique trait. We cant do that with ours. That would mean that on top of its general uses our echo would almost certainly have special properties that we have probably only really tapped passively or by accident and I'm almost certain that considering our importance with the Powers-That-Be that our echo has some particularly valuable properties.

I think our echo is the thing that made Hydaelyn pick us as her primary champion. Its really the only thing that is truly unique to us. There are plenty of strong and brave fighters around who are probably at our level and the blessing is something we were given because we were chosen not the other way round.

That's the WoL's real trick. Its that we can break the rules. We attacks can harm monsters who would otherwise shrug them off. We can take hits from such powers that mortals shouldn't be able to take. We can do that because our power is to gimp the overwhelming power of pseudo-gods and similar constructs. We remove their 'I Win' button and force them to fight on our level (mostly).

I think eventually we will have to master the echo but I think its purposely being left to the side for the time being. They need things to explore further into the future after all.

Although you're correct about the Echo differing in potency and exactly what it grants it's user between those awoken to it (for instance, Minfilia can only view another's memories and cannot understand foreign languages, where as there was a generic npc in the Waking Sands in 1.0 who couldn't view the past but was granted a proficiency in language, and the player's character has proficiency in both), it's not quite correct that the player was uniquely and specifically chosen by Hydaelyn to always be the Warrior of Light - that instead happened purely as a result of dumb luck and our own temerity and stubbornness.

Right at the start, we're awoken to the power of the Echo along with many others, something that isn't even a recent phenonemon, people were being awoken to the Echo way back before the Calamity, and a short time later, we're tasked, along with numerous other adventurers, to seek out the Crystals of Light and accordingly are given Hydaelyn's Blessing. She actually does not refer to us as her 'Champion' or 'The Warrior of Light' until after we've succeeded in gaining all the Crystals and defeating both Gaius and Lahabrea during Operation Archon - prior to that we're just another Echo-using adventurer.

The player's character is not the only one to have the Echo, they're not even the only one to possess the Blessing of Light and Crystals of Light (Ysayle and Krile also possess/possessed them). However, we were the only one to succeed in gaining all of them, and thus only then did we become anointed by all, Hydaelyn included, as the Champion of Eorzea and the Warrior of Light.

Semantics I know, but I just thought it needed clarifying that for a good portion of the game we're not actually 'Hydaelyn's Champion', we're just a nondescript adventurer who manages to come out on top where others failed. Hydaelyn didn't choose just one potential 'Warrior of Light' by granting one special person the Echo and Blessing of Light, she chose countless people for this task, awakening hundred, thousands of people from all walks of life across Eorzea, many of whom weren't even adventurers. All were awoken to the Echo, and asked to seek out the Crystals. Many ignored the call, just as many tried and failed. A few actually managed to succeed in gaining a Crystal of their own.

But only one ultimately succeeded in gaining ALL the Crystals, the player. It's as one of the game's many tagline's says after all, we well and truly, "Heeded the Crystal's Call."

[Belhi]

I disagree. I think she had plans from us pretty early one. There is two reasons for this.

Firstly, the way things are playing Hydaelyn can't just rely on dumb luck. Her enemies certainly aren't. I think we were drawn to the crystals or vies versa. It's worth remembering that a Crystal of Light is a surrendered portion of Hydaelyn's power gifted to her followers so she cant just hand them out like candy. Iceheart had one but Krile didn't, at least that we have seen. She instead borrowed an old one from Matoya.

Secondly, half the point of our test by Midgarsormr was to get stronger but also to prove that we deserved to be chosen. If you simply earned the role in the first place there would be little need to prove oneself a second time. Just holding the Crystals would be enough.

I'd also mention that according to the Wandering Minstrel the Divine Chronicles actually foresee our coming in the wake of the calamity. That would suggest our rise as the WoL wasn't completely random.

[Cilia]

I'd love for the Scions/Hydaelyn to be called out for that. They make no effort to rescue anybody else under the thrall of an Ascian. Which to me is a clear example of Hydaelyn and the Scions playing favourites - and that Hydaelyn may not actually love all of her 'children' after all, let alone equally. Not that I'd want that particular plot device to be used to save any and all who happen to come under the Ascian's control, mind you...

I actually meant Lahabrea, but you're not wrong. We don't have any proof actually killing an Ascian-possessed person will kill the Ascian with them, either...

We can't possibly know of everyone possessed by an Ascian. Aside from Thancred, the only one we know to have sort of been possessed was Travanchet, a minor character from 1.x whose role was kind of vague. The only other people we know to be possessed by Ascians are underlings of Lahabrea who are only important to the SMN 50-60 line, they're corpses instead of living people, and we work our butts off to give them a proper rest.

As for Hydaelyn showing some people more favor than others? That's plain to see in the Journal after Haurchefant's death, which notes that he was a man of no less honor or courage than you, yet Hydaelyn never smiled upon him. I don't expect her to go around giving everyone the kind of grace we have, but... I'd like to know why we were chosen beyond "hero who puts up with damn near everything with a smile and a nod."