There are already two dps-tank jobs, please don't make Paladin the third.

[Violette]

"DRK is only gud against magic lol"

"WAH, let Shletron block magic!"

I think you mean leltron!
But srsly, do it. What's the harm?

Paladins get shelltron working on magic....and drk's get blood weapon in grit. SEEMS BALANCED

The Sheltron ability was designed block attacks that cleave, doing more damage i.e. Thordan's cleve attack or A3S hand swipe. It also restores mana, so you can continue to Stoneskin/Clemency you or a party member.

Some might say those are physical attacks. Some might say if you have time to use SS or CLEM as a pld you could be press 1/2/3 instead. Just saying.

[Aaliyahrose]

This being my point on using PLD abilities i.e Sheltron's instant cast ability to block physical attacks that hit harder than most And maximizing DPS during dps checks.
Flight or Flight requires utiility as well during DPS checks, not using it when its off CD otherwise you are wasting your time and wiping to Hand of Pain in A3S over and over again......lol.
PLD can already do fair DPS to help meet harsh DPS checks already. They simply have the most utility out of all the tank jobs I have played.

[Violette]

This being my point on using PLD abilities i.e Sheltron's instant cast ability to block physical attacks that hit harder than most And maximizing DPS during dps checks.
Flight or Flight requires utiility as well during DPS checks, not using it when its off CD otherwise you are wasting your time and wiping to Hand of Pain in A3S over and over again......lol.
PLD can already do fair DPS to help meet harsh DPS checks already. They simply have the most utility out of all the tank jobs I have played.

The 4th tank job has so much utility it'll blow, your, mind.

As for meeting DPS checks, at this point in a raid cycle any job can do enough dps to meet a dps check. It was week 3 when paladins did so little damage due to poor damage+bad enmity+clunky dps stance, they were obsolete. And I know, I was just teasing you about shleltron.

Paladins can do "fair dps", so can summoners and machinists.
But an equally geared DRK (item for item) will do more damage than a Paladin, assuming equal skill. A lot more damage.
As will a blm than a smn (unless it's aoe). As will a bard over a machinist.

It's not about "hurr durr muh utility". There is no need for the paladins utility in A1/3/4S (Ask Syzygian he'll give you an essay on it and some of it might even be correct). There is no need for it to cast SS/CLEM (Outside of the phase transitions if you really need to). WHM/SCH/(maybe ast on a really good day), can provide all the healing and mitigation you'll need.

So why take a paladin? (Outside of A2S where they're still king).

[Duelle]

The Sheltron ability was designed block attacks that require timing i.e. Thordan's cleve attack or A3S hand swipe. These of which do enough damage that cause healers to throw out a Cure 2 or Lustrate. It also restores mana, so you can continue to Stoneskin/Clemency you or a party member.

Except that, as established, boss auto-attacks can consume Sheltron and you're SOL at that point. Timed blocks work in games that require precise gameplay (see: Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma, the Soul Calibur games). FFXIV is far from that and a different approach to that ability should be considered.

I'd be willing to start by reducing the duration of Sheltron to 5s and making it block all incoming attacks and see how that goes. This way you can go for that illusion of timed blocking while not making the ability overpowered nor making it easy for it to go to waste.

[Violette]

Except that, as established, boss auto-attacks can consume Sheltron and you're SOL at that point. Timed blocks work in games that require precise gameplay (see: Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma, the Soul Calibur games). FFXIV is far from that and a different approach to that ability should be considered.

I'd be willing to start by reducing the duration of Sheltron to 5s and making it block all incoming attacks and see how that goes. This way you can go for that illusion of timed blocking while not making the ability overpowered nor making it easy for it to go to waste.

Thing is, as we can see with Heavenly Heel, it's wonderful against PHYSICAL tank busters with a cast.
It'd eat Flatten for breakfast. It's more victim of circumstance than a bad ability.

[SwordCoheir]

Honestly, re-evaluating PLD's abilities it's actually quite a mitigation beast... at least on paper. Blind, Pacification, Stun, and Silence perhaps the strongest combination of mitigation enfeeblements in the game, but these effects don't work on anything in relevant content, even trash mobs have almost uniformly become immune to most of these effects in post 50 raids. Suppose if they did work though, think about the level of complexity it could add to PLD timing critical enfeeblements, not to mention the party mitigation benefits it could offer.

I mean most jobs get their own unique unresistable enfeeblements, I don't see why PLD's shouldn't at least work part of the time.

[Violette]

Honestly, re-evaluating PLD's abilities it's actually quite a mitigation beast... at least on paper. Blind, Pacification, Stun, and Silence perhaps the strongest combination of mitigation enfeeblements in the game, but these effects don't work on anything in relevant content, even trash mobs have almost uniformly become immune to most of these effects in post 50 raids. Suppose if they did work though, think about the level of complexity it could add to PLD timing critical enfeeblements, not to mention the party mitigation benefits it could offer.

I mean most jobs get their own unique unresistable enfeeblements, I don't see why PLD's shouldn't at least work part of the time.

Well: Silence was been important for cob/scob.
Stun is important in A2S/A4S.
Blind.....kinda works? Not really. And yeah, pacify is trashify.
Don't forget STR down!

[AI_wass]

As far as making tanking entertaining, I can tell you that Tanking blows because you AREN'T really that much tankier than your everyday melee dps. You aren't special when that dragoon or monk can face tank a pull without you.

MNK or DRG might survive for 20-30 seconds or so, blowing every single piece of mitigation they have, on a single dungeon pull. If things are still alive afterwards (which is likely considering that MNK and DRG cannot hit their flank/rear positionals in such a scenario), their chance of survival drops dramatically. Their damage reduction from armor is significantly lower than that of tanks. Post-50, they take twice as much damage on average than an out-of-stance tank of equivalent gear. Even at high item levels, they definitely can't full-pull dungeons all the way up to a boss like a properly-geared tank can and ought. Even if they were to try, they would have to hold aggro against the healer, who would have to be bombing them like crazy to keep them alive. Without innate enmity modifiers on their skills, it's as likely that the healer will have died from ripping aggro off of them; as it is that they die from incoming damage exceeding incoming heals.

[Violette]

MNK or DRG might survive for 20-30 seconds or so, blowing every single piece of mitigation they have, on a single dungeon pull. If things are still alive afterwards (which is likely considering that MNK and DRG cannot hit their flank/rear positionals in such a scenario), their chance of survival drops dramatically. Their damage reduction from armor is significantly lower than that of tanks. Post-50, they take twice as much damage on average than an out-of-stance tank of equivalent gear. Without innate enmity modifiers on their skills, it's as likely that the healer will have died from ripping aggro off of them; as it is that they die from incoming damage exceeding incoming heals.

Tl;dr: OP came to the wrong neighbourhood.

But yeah, 20s will not happen. In Saint's or Pharos HM, when the healer drops the ball (MUST CURE II IN CLERIC STANCEUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU) and a dps grabs 1(even 2!) mobs, it's about 15 seconds.

[Kietsu]

I think what it boils down to is that UNPRECENDENTED MITIGATION isn't all that useful most of the time. Now that we've got three tanks, I doubt SE wants to incorporate mechanics into a raid that require a PLD to be tanking them, so it boils down to what else the tanks can bring to the table - so it really feels like PLD is overspecialising in something they don't need.