What Jobs would you like to see in the next Expansion

[karateorangutang]

I just hope we see a physical pet job and a job that actually manages TP in a way that BLM's manage MP (Large chunk usage offset by regain setups). What they wanna call these jobs doesnt much matter to me. Puppetmaster, beastmaster, Berserker (Viking), and Samurai jump to mind.

[Tanathya]

Snip

Of course it was a simplification, and a massive one. And no, its tankiness wouldn't necessarily be lower. Should I remind you of how WAR compares to PLD in every single aspect? Damage is higher, mitigation is higher in every scenario, and the heals are, at least, useful, and to be honest, really powerful. They're self-heals, yes, but it's not like you're gonna cast Clemency on anyone, unless it's a pretty rough, and critical situation. Which Clemency isn't gonna save.

Interruptions? That's nice, if it wasn't because you need to know when to cast. That happened in FFXI, and you know what? You had to know when to cast as well, same deal, you're getting hit, time your castings. I do have PLD and I rarely run into that problem when I decide to give Clemency some use.

You just want RDM to be a DD, that's fine, but in all honesty, the only role it can actually cast elemental magic, have some sort of heals, and still be a close combatant while being useful, is tank. Take the tank out of it, and you either have a DD no one is gonna want, or an overpowered DD. Pick one.

Also, a risky idea. It's about time they take some risks, isn't it? Playing it safe is making this utterly boring and predictable.

[Reynhart]

Of course it was a simplification, and a massive one. And no, its tankiness wouldn't necessarily be lower. Should I remind you of how WAR compares to PLD in every single aspect? Damage is higher, mitigation is higher in every scenario, and the heals are, at least, useful, and to be honest, really powerful. They're self-heals, yes, but it's not like you're gonna cast Clemency on anyone, unless it's a pretty rough, and critical situation. Which Clemency isn't gonna save.

Yes, that's call obvious inbalance, and the reason PLD wil be adjusted in 3.2...

Interruptions? That's nice, if it wasn't because you need to know when to cast. That happened in FFXI, and you know what? You had to know when to cast as well, same deal, you're getting hit, time your castings. I do have PLD and I rarely run into that problem when I decide to give Clemency some use.

Seriously...you mean the game when attacks occured every 5 seconds ?

You just want RDM to be a DD, that's fine, but in all honesty, the only role it can actually cast elemental magic, have some sort of heals, and still be a close combatant while being useful, is tank.

You just want RDM to be a tank, and that's fine but in all honesty, the only role it can actually cast elemental magic, have some sort of heals, and still be a close combattant while being useful, is DPS.

Take the tank out of it, and you either have a DD no one is gonna want, or an overpowered DD. Pick one.

So easy to judge that something is either useless or overpowered...as if there was nothing in between.

[Tanathya]

Snip

No, I'm not talking about FFXI, I'm talking about FFXIV, just saying the same happened there. You just nitpicked whatever you wanted and twisted it. Clemency is completely castable here.

I want RDM to be a RDM, but you don't want to see the obvious.

And yes, in this game, if something isn't what's expected, it's either overpowered or completely useless. Do not blame me for pointing it out, blame SE for their utter lack of creativity. They do not think outside the box, period. Also, you might've missed the point, but it is not WAR that's getting a balance, it's PLD. Meaning my point about RDM being a jack of all trades while tanking is valid.

Me? I personally want to see something different, and RDM tanking would go a long way. I personally don't care if it's a tank, a DD, a healer, or a freaking crafter, I just thought of something different while viable by current standards. Because yeah, everybody suggesting a SAM tank is oh-so-original.

Also, making fun of me isn't gonna work. From here on out, I'm done with this discussion as well.

[Iagainsti]

Time Mage:

Spark=Ruin, Dark Spark= Ruin II, Star Spark= Ruin III
Quake, Quake II= Aoe
Slowga (CD 9secs)= Reduces target's and all nearby target's casting speed, auto attack for 10 secs, grants player Time Bend stack
Hastega(CD 9 secs)= all party members abilities tp usage is reduced by 5% for 10 secs, grants player Time Bend stack
Mute(CD 30 secs)= Silence target for 5 secs, grants player Time Bend Stack

Double Cast= Next Spark, Dark Spark, Star Spark, Quake, or Quake II cast procs and additional cast of this spell at no mp cost. Uses 2 Time Bend stacks.
Triple Cast = Next Spark, Dark Spark, or Star Spark, Quake, or Quake II cast procs an additional 2 casts of this spell at no mp cost. Uses 3 Time Bend stacks.

Just a quick hashing of featured abilities, add or subtract what you feel, but this would be a fun caster dps class.

[Reynhart]

No, I'm not talking about FFXI, I'm talking about FFXIV, just saying the same happened there. You just nitpicked whatever you wanted and twisted it. Clemency is completely castable here.

Yes, but Clemency (And Stoneskin) are not GCD you use all the time as a rotation. Remember that people despise macros because they force a slight delay when compared to GCD. With that in mind, if RDM primary skills are spells (Since, as you pointed out, it's a mage), then "knowing when to cast" is out of the question. Imagine if PLD or WAR had something akin to Wanderer's Minuet and need casting time for their enmity and damaging combo...Moving would also interrupt any action you'd take, reducing further your damage and/or you enmity generation.
It's far more that just "nitpicking".

I want RDM to be a RDM, but you don't want to see the obvious.

Except that RDM has abolutely nothing related to a tank archetype.

And yes, in this game, if something isn't what's expected, it's either overpowered or completely useless.

No, it's not. People are overdramatizing everything, not SE. PLD is a good example here, since it is perfetcly viable in any content, but, if you trust the fanbase, is absolute garbage that need complete reworking.
And SE is just throwing adjustement (until now) without even realizing what PLD really do.

Also, you might've missed the point, but it is not WAR that's getting a balance, it's PLD.

Yes, PLD is getting adjustment because WAR is equal or stronger at everything. You used WAR to justified how RDM's tankiness could be on par with PLD even though its DPS output and/or healing output would still be higher than PLD, which is obvious inbalance.

Meaning my point about RDM being a jack of all trades while tanking is valid.

I also want something different, that's why I posted my ideas for a RDM earlier in this topic.

Also, making fun of me isn't gonna work. From here on out, I'm done with this discussion as well.

Don't blame me, blame your usage of overstatement, like your "the only role is tank" without any explanation.

[Tanathya]

Don't blame me, blame your usage of overstatement, like your "the only role is tank" without any explanation.

Ok.
/10char

[Kaeoni]

NECROMANCER!

*drops mike walks off stage left*

[Kaeoni]

Also didn't read a whole lot of what's going on with the Rdm scandal that's happening.... But the only way for a Rdm to actually be a Rdm, in the sense that it's a hybrid class, meaning it can cast Black magic, White magic, and use Rapiers Is for the class to be a Tank class. If you made the class primarily one of those 3 things In a DPS or Healing role, You lose what a Red Mage actually is.
Make it too Healy and people would get pissed it doesn't have Higher DPS.
Make it a DPS in any sense whether it be Physical, Magical or a combination of the 2, you're still leaving out It's White Magic.

You could make Rdm in the image of FFxi's Rdm, an unkillable monster who could Kill Land, Sky and Sea Gods Solo. But then you destroy the fabric of space time. By space time I mean how FFxiv functions in all it's restricted glory. You can't have a Blm with the healing strength of a Whm. Or vice versa.

This Leaves us with Tanking. Something Rdm has already shown the ability to do. In FFxi it's only problem was being able to keep threat. If it could, Rdm/Nin Might have been the be all end all. In a Tank position It could do all 3 things. Its not a class that excelled at any of those 3 positions (Magical or Physical DPS and Healing) so it doesn't make sense to force it into those roles. Besides, you'd have multiple people displeased with how It functions for one reason or another.

Rdm is a class that's a jack of all trades but master of none. It's strength comes from the accumulation of all it's parts. Something no other class can do (dabbling in both Dark and Light arts + physical). Aside from Maybe Blue mage which is somewhat similar...

I mean ideally we could just let Rdm be a Rdm, a Mage with a Rapier who can throw up En-spells on himself, Cast some pretty decent FastCast Magic Dmg, some pretty decent Cures, and Physical DPS.
The problem is, the class itself stands for something FFxiv does not. And that word is Flexibility. Something this game does not have in it's dictionary. The only option unless you want to bastardize the class is to botch all 3 and make it a tanking class. If you're going to bastardize the class, you might as well not even add it to the game. BUT I feel if it's a Tank, at least it'll still be what It's suppose to be.

A Red Mage.

Edit: I should note that, If you attempt to make this class a TRUE to the expression "jack of all trades" No one would want it in their group. No one wants a half baked Healer or DPS. Why get rid of a real DPS like Drg Mnk or Smn for a class that can only function at half the capacity of a true DPS class? Because it can heal too? Why? You have a healer, so you shouldn't be required to use a single healing spell with an Ast/Whm/Sch around. Alternatively No one wants a Healer who can't Heal as well as a Whm/Ast/Sch. You're a wasted party slot who can do everything but you have not mastered a single one. So, Rdm is useless because the game has no real solo functionality built into it other than Unsynced Dungeons, No one will play it. This game is NOT FFxi. There is no real benefit to having a class like that.

If you wish to Retain this Idea of a True to word jack of all trades and make it a viable choice. Your only choice is to buff the class. If the class is then buffed, all of a sudden it becomes as strong as a Whm and has the ability to either be slightly below or on par with a Blm. You then alienate either a DPS slot or a healer slot due to how you as a Rdm can easily fill the role of either and sub in, incase some kind of crisis happens like a Whm falling in battle.

Why Is this a problem? You force Rdm into a mandatory slot. You've given it far more functionality than a single class should have, overshadowing certain DPS classes and Healing classes due to how flexible you are. The problem is, No middle ground exists with Red Mage, It's either OP and viable, Or Underpowered and useless. The only solution is as I've said above. Make it a Tank, though not conventional or traditional. It still retains it's identity. Which is what really matters here. If it doesn't retain it's identity, It's not Red Mage anymore.

[Tanathya]

Also didn't read a whole lot of what's going on with the Rdm scandal that's happening.... But the only way for a Rdm to actually be a Rdm, in the sense that it's a hybrid class, meaning it can cast Black magic, White magic, and use Rapiers Is for the class to be a Tank class.

And this is what I've been trying to explain. You got it right!