"Dark Knight: Tanking On The Edge"

[Syzygian]

Just want to reiterate, turning off Grit is primarily for bosses, not trash pulls.

[kensatsu]

yeah, you may can achieve some trash by turning off grit, but never at the pull of many trash...
it's obvious

[MarioLazor]

How do you manage to fit four combos before you reapply Scourge, and not only that, but have 2 seconds left before you have to reapply it? What Skill Speed do you need for that? Whenever I pull off 4 combos Scourge *just* falls off as I'm reapplying it.

[Syzygian]

How do you manage to fit four combos before you reapply Scourge, and not only that, but have 2 seconds left before you have to reapply it? What Skill Speed do you need for that? Whenever I pull off 4 combos Scourge *just* falls off as I'm reapplying it.

I am in that same boat right now as well after some gear changes since drafting this resulting in my SkS dipping down to about 600 and some change. Clipping Scourge by that much happens at about a 2.38 GCD - I can't recall off the top of my head what the SkS threshold is for that. It will vary depending on where Blood Weapon ends up in Scourge's duration, as there will be times where Scourge ticks almost its entire duration during BW's cooldown.

[Jekyll]

Posted this on the video forums, but it appears that DRK is getting some love:

https://giphy.com/gifs/iWrp1EHGAbOo0

4:52 on the trailer video. DRK splits into two.

[KaitlanKela]

Posted this on the video forums, but it appears that DRK is getting some love:

https://giphy.com/gifs/iWrp1EHGAbOo0

4:52 on the trailer video. DRK splits into two.

As said in other threads, this is a boss mechanic.

[FallenWings]

A couple of questions that will probably be a bit tedious to answer but nonetheless I hoped will be answered,

For the oGCD skills which of them can be used with another and specifically which ones and what combinations are available. For example I think, although I'm not entirely sure: DA, DP, and CS are fast enough to be double weaved(?) with eachother.

And for the general main ST rotation, is it strictly DASE > DE at all times?

I used to use DASE x2 > DE rotationally and would oft to find myself almost bottoming out and having to probably punch out DE x2 to get back to a comfortable level of mana without compromising DACS DP usagae most of the time. My thought process being that I ideally would want more DASE's due to the mana gain from timed BW's and/or full BPs thus potentially allowing more DPS (minimal as it may or may not be) as well as the general WAR mindset of having uptime being during as much of your peak time (DASE x2/3) and hopefully DE recovery time is aligned with downtimes(whereupon I can rely on natural MP ticks or Ballad/MCHequivalent).

I haven't mathed out whether or not DAx2 DE into DE recovery (DEx2/3) is higher or lower so I would like an input from a seasoned DRK on what the universal optimal GCD rotation is.

uguuuuu stupid DRK is stupid fun and stupid hard 4 my Superior WAR mind

[Syzygian]

For the oGCD skills which of them can be used with another and specifically which ones and what combinations are available. For example I think, although I'm not entirely sure: DA, DP, and CS are fast enough to be double weaved(?) with eachother.

From my experience, in order from shortest animation lock to longest - DP < CS < SaE < RE < BW < DA < LB < PL. Your mileage may vary and latency is most certainly a factor and I admit mine is not perfect, some nights I can double-weave LB with stuff and other nights I can't, something that I'm sure to crucify Comcast for one of these days. Of course, I would be extremely wary of double-weaving anything with a longer animation than SaE while BW is up, as your GCD can get as short as 2.11 seconds if you're running a super SkS-heavy build. As stated in the guide, I would ALWAYS use DACS and DP woven together to frontload your MP consumption. Having to account separately for 2 DPs and a DACS every minute can cut into DASE spam.

And for the general main ST rotation, is it strictly DASE > DE at all times?

This is heavily dependent on fight mechanics and any breaks you have. For example, in A3S, I used a rotation in the first phase of SC - PS - (Grit off+BW) - DASE - DASE - DASE - SC - DE - DE - DASE - (phase change) for a retardedly high burst. I'm ahead of my WAR by almost 100 DPS (although we even out towards the end of the fight, obviously). When OTing, I tend to stick to DASE - DE as BW is just enough to maintain this for an indefinite period assuming you hit DASC and DP on cooldown, however, any time you have Blood Weapon, you can double DASE without much immediate consequence, you just may have to do an extra DE later, but this isn't a big deal so long as you push that extra MP when it matters.

This all goes out the window when you are tanking outside of Grit and have access to BW and BP at once, in which case I usually just spam DASE until I need MP, then let my MP jump back up, with BW or BP and then go back to DASE spam as appropriate. You don't always need to alternate. You can drop 3 DASEs and then 3 DEs. It all depends on when you need burst or not, and when the DE debuff is actually important. You should also prioritize your physical oGCDs over DP and SaE during BWs uptime for maximum recovery.

How much you use DE vs DASE is ultimately dependent on a lot of factors:

1. Are you OTing or MTing? If strictly one of these two, definitely stick to DASE > DE repeat.
2. If MTing, are you tanking outside of Grit? If so, you can use DASE much more liberally.
3. Is there a MNK? If so, you only need to use DE for MP and nothing else, and the necessary usage quota of DE to maintain the debuff tends to be more than is needed for MP, by a small margin, which again, gets much larger if you tank outside of Grit.
4. Is there a DPS check coming up? If so, you need to burn that fucking mana like its going out of style. DE is almost always a DPS loss in these situations where you need to burst down an add or something.
5. Remember that every 4 combos SC needs reapplying, so don't forget if your rotation shifts in such a way that the combo you're used to applying it after changes.
6. If MTing, how much is the boss hitting you? Are there phases where he hits you considerably more or many times in succession?
7. If OTing, is there raid-wide or OT-targeted damage that you can pop BP for?
8. If you're spamming DASE, is there an upcoming surplus of MP that you can use to recover (BW coming off recast? Rapid series of hits taken from the boss/adds? An add dying that you can pop SS/AV on? A phase change/break/boss jump where you can expect a Ballad/PromoBishop)?

An optimal rotation is hard to pin down because as I said in the guide, its a priority system based largely on the list above. SC-DASE-DE-DASE-DE is the safe and "optimal" baseline. But if you want to put out WAR-like numbers and above, you have to study the fight under a microscope and look for windows in which you can aggressively burn MP, preferably with the promise of sufficient recovery opportunities afterwards. I'm fine with having to spam DE for a bit in a phase where burst is not nearly as important if that's the price of spamming DASE during an important check. So there is not an "optimal" rotation for every fight because the circumstances surrounding your MP consumption/recovery are never going to be the same from fight to fight or even phase to phase. I would say that I play DRK extremely aggressively, and I'm not afraid to let my MP drop to only a few DS ticks away from flooring if the DPS matters more at the time than it will later.

There are lots of optimal DPS tricks you can use revolving around uptime. The fact that you have ranged/AoE abilities (DP/PL and SaE respectively) in your ST rotation is a boon for uptime, because if you step away from the boss for a few seconds for a mechanic you can hit any one of these to maintain uptime/DPS. Weave them in between Unmends if you have to. Never let SC fall off the boss. SC is a slow-motion Fell Cleave over 30 seconds. Its one of the best DoTs in the game.

uguuuuu stupid DRK is stupid fun and stupid hard 4 my Superior WAR mind

DRK is stupid fun. And its not so much innately hard as hard to maximize. Even I have been known to fat-finger a thing or two in the sea of DAing things and hitting oGCDs. I would say it requires a LOT more mental focus and muscle memory, while being button-mashy doesn't = hard necessarily, the fact that DRK has so many buttons with such short recasts that you always have to keep an eye on to maximize DPS/mana recovery (to say nothing of procs) means it is punishing if you are not constantly vigilant. Once you know a fight well though, you can do some pretty retarded stuff that more novice DRKs will look at you questioningly for... "How do you have the MP for that? O.O"

Your MP management/recovery is not set in stone as I've said, it varies from encounter to encounter and there are LOTS of spots in any given fight where you can fish for extra MP that you can easily miss if you're not looking for it, and its this along with Gritless MTing that really allows you to push out those 800 potency DASE combos far more than seems fair, and prove what Yoshi said about DRK DPS vs. WAR DPS can be true. >=]

[Violette]

Apart from Fallen </3, you could've asked, in regards to the oGCD (Since Syzygian has answered you other question reasonably well)(If you're in the OT position, w/o blood weapon you're generally looking at 2 SS combo's per DA usage).

"DP < CS < SaE < RE < BW < DA < LB < PL" is a good list, however from my own testing I've found that DA and LB have two of the shortest animation locks, while BW weapon is second highest.
YMMV, but it also depends on which way you cancel and what GCD you're cancelling off of.

Cancelling off of SE usually only gets you one (or something like DP>DA>GCD), but off of DE/PS tends to be a lot safer. Also of note, is that you can GritOFF into any oGCD if you time it right, but grit on is a gcd which you can't usually double out of.

Also, you can maybe double LB/DP>DA during blood weapon, but that'll be the most of it.

In regards to future testing, I've found DA to have the shortest animation lock outside of DP (god bless DP), so I frequently use it for my secondary ogcd's to force the others to resolve faster (like fire weaving). Not sure if anyone else uses it like I do.

[Syzygian]

Apart from Fallen </3, you could've asked, in regards to the oGCD (Since Syzygian has answered you other question reasonably well)(If you're in the OT position, w/o blood weapon you're generally looking at 2 SS combo's per DA usage).

"DP < CS < SaE < RE < BW < DA < LB < PL" is a good list, however from my own testing I've found that DA and LB have two of the shortest animation locks, while BW weapon is second highest.
YMMV, but it also depends on which way you cancel and what GCD you're cancelling off of.

Cancelling off of SE usually only gets you one (or something like DP>DA>GCD), but off of DE/PS tends to be a lot safer. Also of note, is that you can GritOFF into any oGCD if you time it right, but grit on is a gcd which you can't usually double out of.

Also, you can maybe double LB/DP>DA during blood weapon, but that'll be the most of it.

In regards to future testing, I've found DA to have the shortest animation lock outside of DP (god bless DP), so I frequently use it for my secondary ogcd's to force the others to resolve faster (like fire weaving). Not sure if anyone else uses it like I do.

Editing this in, its useful.