Pld Aoe enmity

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

As far as I knew how to play pld at 50 for aoe enmity it was just, spam flash and then riotblade mp back up, so after flash spam till no MP I would had assumed he's doing it right, guess not then. Do educate me how it could had been different

ok, this marks the 2nd time in as many days that I have seen this mentioned as an appropriate method for aoe emnity generation on PLD. PLEASE tell me this is not an actual thing.


Use Flash, yes, but spamming until you have no more mana?????? Please, for anyone reading this, if you see someone doing this, HELP THEM. There are many better ways to generate emnity... and spamming a skill that does no damage (and has very weak emnity generation) is a poor way to play your class.

Flash has one of the lowest enmity generations out of all of Pld's enmity moves. It scales with Str, but it is very weak. So, a Pld can lose enmity if he/she is purely relying on Flash to hold hate, especially if they are out-geared by any significant margin. Flash does not scale with attack power (it's not considered a physical attack), so the weapon makes no difference, only the amount of Str they have.

Before HW came out, a full-spec'd Pld (ilvl 130) who was running with an average party could hold hate by rotating Shield Lob > FoF > CoS > Flash > Fast Blade > Flash > Riot Blade > Flash > etc. However, if the Dps know what they are doing, spamming flash would not be sufficient. A proper Pld rotation involved using the RoH combo in tandem with Flash.

Both Savage Blade and RoH secure a much higher amount of enmity than Flash can alone, so the proper Pld AoE rotation was: Shield Lob > FoF > CoS > Fast Blade > Flash > Savage Blade (new target) > RoH (new target, priority on physical dmg debuff) > Flash (re-apply blind debuff) > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > RoH > Flash > etc. …...

For anyone who thinks mana draining flash is good, please re-read Februs' statement

[Launched]

ok, this marks the 2nd time in as many days that I have seen this mentioned as an appropriate method for aoe emnity generation on PLD. PLEASE tell me this is not an actual thing.

Use Flash, yes, but spamming until you have no more mana?????? Please, for anyone reading this, if you see someone doing this, HELP THEM. There are many better ways to generate emnity... and spamming a skill that does no damage (and has very weak emnity generation) is a poor way to play your class.

For anyone who thinks mana draining flash is good, please re-read Februs' statement

Flash generates 600 potency of enmity, the same as a comboed Savage Blade or Overpower without Maim (and I would assume Unleash without Darkside). Obviously you should try to avoid going completely out of MP by using it, but in any aoe situation like what this thread's about, Flash is easily enough to hold aggro on any pack. Flash's enmity/potency scales with your STR just like damage does.

[AlexiIvaniskavich]

snip..

Going to have to ask for your source on this. PLD emnity hasn't changed in FOREVER, and it's been theory crafted before that Flash is far and away the weakest emnity generation (multiplier was mathed at 2x) in comparison to RoH (mathed at 5x of damage [x2 if in shield oath]). http://valk.dancing-mad.com/methodology/#Enmity.

I realize this link is quite old, but I haven't seen anything worked up recently, likely due to enmity not changing within the game. So if there is a new source for this information I would love for it to be known.


From my understanding, Flash only generates more enmity if you are doing a non combo'd RoH, as the majority of the enmity generation using RoH is based upon the damage it is doing.

***** EDIT ***** Pulling these charts from the link above as a bit of a TL;DR

[Launched]

Going to have to ask for your source on this. PLD emnity hasn't changed in FOREVER, and it's been theory crafted before that Flash is far and away the weakest emnity generation (multiplier was mathed at 2x) in comparison to RoH (mathed at 5x of damage [x2 if in shield oath]). http://valk.dancing-mad.com/methodology/#Enmity.

I realize this link is quite old, but I haven't seen anything worked up recently, likely due to enmity not changing within the game. So if there is a new source for this information I would love for it to be known.

From my understanding, Flash only generates more enmity if you are doing a non combo'd RoH, as the majority of the enmity generation using RoH is based upon the damage it is doing.

Proof that Flash scales with damage stats and tank stance:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...modifiers_and/

Those images are out of date and Flash got a buff in 2.4, it's in the patch notes. It's not a flat +550 enmity like the picture says, it's pretty much a 600 potency attack that doesn't do any damage but generates enmity (no damage so it doesn't scale with FoF). Apparently there's an enmity plugin for ACT but since parsers aren't allowed I obviously can't show that.

As soon as Chaos servers stop being broken I'm going to log in and compare Flash to Overpower on the enmity list to prove its scaling.

[Launched]

I tested by getting someone to hit the dummy a few times then stop attacking so I'd have a static amount of enmity to test against. I used the same gear sets for PLD/WAR, with Thordan axe vs Thordan sword+shield. You can see on the top that by themselves, Flash and Overpower generate the same amount of enmity and we know that Overpower is 120x5, so Flash must be 600 potency. Overpower is slightly weaker in tank stance but gets buffed by Maim.

A Flash in Shield Oath is 600*2.3*0.8=1104 potency of enmity.
Overpower in Defiance with no Maim is 120*5*2.3*0.75= 1035 potency of enmity.
Overpower in Defiance with Maim is 120*5*1.2*2.3*0.75=1242 potency of enmity.

[Shurrikhan]

On average, Flash is about as strong as any other tank AoE. Its only real issues are that it doesn't scale with anything and cannot crit; whereas other tanks could make use of Maim/Darkside and Warrior can pop Berserk with Overpowers to hold threat for 10+ seconds at a time with each AoE strike, Paladin can't build those AoE threat margins nearly so quickly.

Tldr; yes they're inferior, but I would almost have to suspect your PLD had a broken weapon, if not for the lack of complaints of his ST threat. I too pull of PLDs frequently in AoE, but only because those PLDs refused to flash as much as they should.

[Malicewolf]

Yea, i think it may have been an issue with your PLD, not the PLD move set overall. The ONLY combo I've had real trouble with are monk and blackmage combo that are above ilvl 200 and attacking separate targets while going full out (and I can still usually hold, just on the cusp most of the time). Granted, a good DPS can keep me on my toes in general, but its really all about prioritizing your targets. Spamming flash won't do well against the big hitters. Though, it still should of worked honestly... My guess is either broken gear or your tank JUST made the ilvl while the rest of you had decked out gear. Cause even at ilvl 185, I was able to hold from players using ilvl 205+ (it was just hard).

[AniCelestine]

Tldr; yes they're inferior, but I would almost have to suspect your PLD had a broken weapon, if not for the lack of complaints of his ST threat. I too pull of PLDs frequently in AoE, but only because those PLDs refused to flash as much as they should.

There was indeed ST hate problems too, wasn't the main concern since I've had ST issues with other tanks too, even the ones that kept aoe well off of me, but that ST issue with those were mainly warriors not doing opener well and trying to deliverance. (SE please, enmity reduction ability for mnk maybe?), but since when I used to run some roulets as pld at lvl 50 and never have any issues with the flash alot -> riot blade mp back up (apart triple RS no QS flare lol) and the pld in question did flash alot so it seemed really broken. But guess he really was in fact broken. His weapon I mean. /shrug

[Jim_Berry]

I've been posting here about how I am a full VIT PLD. That said, I only would lose hate on a mob if I wasn't putting in work (ie face-pulled instead of Shield Lob). Since I normally take content serious once I enter, I am too focused (if there's no real life distractions), my VIT accessories does not hinder me.

I've seen most PLDs Flash and Scorn, but then they keep the Rage of Halone combo going on one mob while Flashing the other. Instead, once I've settled on the pull with Flash and Scorn, I am bouncing mobs with each attack. I tend to:

Fast Blade the mob I hit with Shield Lob...
Savage Blade the next mob...
Rage of Halone the third mob...

If there's a fourth and fifth mob, I'll Flash again, then Fast Blade the fourth mob, Savage Blade the fifth mob, Rage of Halone the first mob. Very simple for me.