Dev decisions get away from the player demnads ( Parser PVP Goldsaucer diadem ect.)

[Yukiko]

i dont think the dummy / training room is wasted resources , however i think that Lord of vermillions and the new pvp systems are wasted resourices and time ...to something ppl will play on the 1 day and never touch again , training room will be the same for lots of ppl , but if that room helps 1 of every 100 players i would be more than happy.

Diadem could have been awesome....but....

In what way a dummy will help?
So you smash your head against a dummy than on the real thing, but still you dont know how to improve (instanced, no observers allowed) - all you will know is if you succeeded or failed in DPS check...
Well, square enix is listeneing to the wrong players... i remember someone made a suggestion about: "all will be better if those newbies will not join my groups"
Instead of "training parties" we will only get "join if you have beaten doll parties" and i bet with you - it will become a lot harder to get anyone "willing" to join the group.

Edit: Just a sidenote: The timing on the real thing is different from the timing on a dummy, if the dummy use the same mechanics (i doubt)

[Ibi]

No way to proove that you ever beat any dummy

There may be achievements added related to the content that will allow you to show what you've done.

[Alahra]

Just about everything you're saying is an instance of the developers being out of touch with the playerbase was at some point requested by some segment of the playerbase—that's why the dummy DPS tests, Gold Saucer, Lords of Verminion, Exploratory Missions and so on were all added. Players asked for them. The wants of the playerbase are actually pretty varied, as the game covers a lot of demographics and playstyles.

What normally happens is that Group of Players A requests a certain type of content or tool for the game, and the developers respond by developing content to address that request. Group of Players B then comes around and complains that the developers aren't listening to the players at all because they did that instead of some other thing they want, completely forgetting that the developers can't really listen to all players at once because the player base is not a uniform mass that has the same simple desires.

No piece of content is going to appease the wants of 100% of the playerbase. Most content probably only hits some fraction of it. Be careful not to confuse your desires or the desires of those who agree with you with the desires of the entire playerbase.

[Ultimatecalibur]

There may be achievements added related to the content that will allow you to show what you've done.

They explicitly said they were not adding any achievements for Stone, Sea and Sky.

No piece of content is going to appease the wants of 100% of the playerbase. Most content probably only hits some fraction of it. Be careful not to confuse your desires or the desires of those who agree with you with the desires of the entire playerbase.

The Dev team are also human. The can not guarantee that they will get a piece of content right on the first attempt. It also takes resources to fix the problems that are found.

[Lexia]

Majority of PC player base allready uses parsers nothing you can do about. If you would play on PC or are interested in endgame contend you would too.

I don't really understand this post, are you saying if person not playing on PC and using a parser they a bad player or something? Could you explain more?

[Kaurie]

I understand your points. Just as your gaming history and experience doesn't lead you to the tradition of minigames I was talking about, so my gaming history doesn't really lead me to raiding and end-game. As per your quote, the player base can't really agree on what we want collectively. So we end up with quickly implemented mini-games (which is fine) and less end-game content than core end-game players would like. I'll say that's fine too since it's not my thing to do. But I know you'll disagree because it spreads the dev resource more thinly than is ideal for any one type of content.

Unless their team grows a bit, that's always going to be the case. But then again, that's not necessarily a bad thing, smaller teams often make quicker and more effective decisions because they are not paralyzed by 'committee' decision making. Despite that thought, I agree that an increase in Dev resources on the core game side of things would be a very good decision on their part, but I'd like to see that happen without taking away resources from side quests, mini-games and other non-core content.

Hey, I just wanted to add.. I was having a discussion with someone about Guild Wars 2 and I felt there was a lot of crossover here. I am not against mini-games per se. In Guild Wars 2, I loved jumping puzzles. I also enjoyed their seasonal activities (particularly the Super Adventure Box). I feel they did an amazing job with their side activities. If Square added something as fun as either of these 2, I wouldn't be complaining.

[Nalien]

i dont think the dummy / training room is wasted resources , however i think that Lord of vermillions and the new pvp systems are wasted resourices and time ...to something ppl will play on the 1 day and never touch again , training room will be the same for lots of ppl , but if that room helps 1 of every 100 players i would be more than happy.

PvP is probably the best thing XIV has going at the moment... There is a clear difference between 2.1s Wolves' Den and what we're getting with Feast, and every step of the way in Frontlines has had improvements. Still very much lacking in some regards, but PvP is the only aspect of the game I think the developers care about at this point... Shame they don't retroactively adjust the old PvP content to improve it and instead leave it irrelevant... Feast is currently looked upon with excitement from the PvP half of this game, meanwhile what PvE players are honestly looking forward to 3.2?

I look at dungeons and I see them getting easier and more linear, same with with raids. What's the difference between the PvE content in 2.1 and the PvE content in 3.1? The skin. That's it. In the dungeons you're doing the exact same thing, all the changes are superficial. In Diadem you've got a compact mess similar to Hunts. And Void Ark just straight up copies LotA (three groups off trash, a boss, some trash the alliance splits into three areas for, a boss, etc.). Hate on PvP all you like, but the team in charge of PvP actually seems to slowly be listening to their community and adding some long sought after adjustments (Feast has Assists, it's hard for me not to be happy). Meanwhile the PvE team just churns out the same thing update after update... People complained about Atma in 2.#? Better repeat that step then! It's really quite ironic...

That's another point, actually. There are different teams within the development team. From what I've gathered from comments over the years, they absolutely have a team working on PvE content, and an entirely separate one working on PvP. There would also seem to be a group working on Gold Saucer and Housing (I recall a comment that Housing adjustments were delayed ~2.5 because the team was working on Gold Saucer)... So... The Feast is not taking away from PvE content, nor is Lord of Verminion, though we're all welcome to complain about that regardless, because it's awful. Far too complex for a mini-game, Lord of Vermilion is its own stand alone game for a reason, I think... Kind of stupid to just stick such a game into XIV as a mini-game. Chocobo Racing and Triple Triad are very basic in their introduction (as is something like Pokemans) and they build up from there, meanwhile Lord of Verminion dumps a new controller setting on you right away, as well as all your minions with new skills, strengths and weaknesses. It's too overwhelming to process all that at the start, so many simply don't bother, and most certainly aren't going to dedicate their game time to it, and wont even be able to, because of the small playerbase it has here anyway...

[Kosmos992k]

Hey, I just wanted to add.. I was having a discussion with someone about Guild Wars 2 and I felt there was a lot of crossover here. I am not against mini-games per se. In Guild Wars 2, I loved jumping puzzles. I also enjoyed their seasonal activities (particularly the Super Adventure Box). I feel they did an amazing job with their side activities. If Square added something as fun as either of these 2, I wouldn't be complaining.

Considering the sophistication of the client, I'm kind of surprised that we have only had one implementation of a platform/jumping game mechanic, and that is in the Gold Saucer.

Actually, I'd like to see them make use of some of the mechanics that they've introduced in minigames, in their dungeons. For example;

• you have to force a door, use the mechanics of the punching game or the 1.x gathering minigames,
• need to make an area difficult to get to, use the platform/jumping mechanics,
• need a physical puzzle, use the dance mechanics from the dancing GATE event so you have to repeat a sequence of emotes,
• trying to get the key to work, use the Moogle grabber game where you have to line up on the target on the X and Y axis
• Need to trigger an even with items collected along the way, use the basketball toss mechanic minigame and get 4 out of 6 in on target, or go collect more from the mobs (that will respawn...never understood why monsters in FFXIV dungeons are incapable of respawning, and almost never patrol...),
• use the sliding puzzle mechanic from the toy box minigame to decode a door entry code,

There is a lot of scope here to use all these different mechanics that they have already implemented. The mechanics that already exist in the game can be used differently, the mini-games are not a wast IMHO because those mini-games could be built upon for use in regular content.

Heck we already have meta games using the jumping of our characters when we try to find ways onto the roofs of houses, or find difficult to access ledges in More Donuts, and other locations.

It goes both ways, flight brings a new element to Chocobo travel, so why not have flight based races, or races that use ground and flight modes, and even a bit of jumping/platforming?

There is a lot of potential, but I am concerned that the speed, speed, speed efficiency over everything mentality of some players may have convinced SE that sprinkling in things like the above ideas would be a bad idea.

[Ibi]

They explicitly said they were not adding any achievements for Stone, Sea and Sky.

Ah, I must have missed that.

Yeah, that does rather limit its usefulness.

[Kaurie]

Considering the sophistication of the client, I'm kind of surprised that we have only had one implementation of a platform/jumping game mechanic, and that is in the Gold Saucer.


Actually, I'd like to see them make use of some of the mechanics that they've introduced in minigames, in their dungeons. For example;

• you have to force a door, use the mechanics of the punching game or the 1.x gathering minigames,
• need to make an area difficult to get to, use the platform/jumping mechanics,
• need a physical puzzle, use the dance mechanics from the dancing GATE event so you have to repeat a sequence of emotes,
• trying to get the key to work, use the Moogle grabber game where you have to line up on the target on the X and Y axis
• Need to trigger an even with items collected along the way, use the basketball toss mechanic minigame and get 4 out of 6 in on target, or go collect more from the mobs (that will respawn...never understood why monsters in FFXIV dungeons are incapable of respawning, and almost never patrol...),
• use the sliding puzzle mechanic from the toy box minigame to decode a door entry code,

There is a lot of scope here to use all these different mechanics that they have already implemented. The mechanics that already exist in the game can be used differently, the mini-games are not a wast IMHO because those mini-games could be built upon for use in regular content.

Heck we already have meta games using the jumping of our characters when we try to find ways onto the roofs of houses, or find difficult to access ledges in More Donuts, and other locations.

It goes both ways, flight brings a new element to Chocobo travel, so why not have flight based races, or races that use ground and flight modes, and even a bit of jumping/platforming?

There is a lot of potential, but I am concerned that the speed, speed, speed efficiency over everything mentality of some players may have convinced SE that sprinkling in things like the above ideas would be a bad idea.

I completely agree, and upon considering GW2, I was thinking almost the opposite as well. They could use the template of the open world to create mini-games. The mini-games as they are feel very disconnected from the rest of the game (whether you are controlling minions, looking at a window pop up of cards or whatever), whereas the stuff in GW2 involves your avatar running around and using your hotbar. Skills may change on your hotbar (as is in Super Adventure Box) or you can use your job skills to complete jumping puzzles etc.

A connection between mini-games and the rest of the game would go a long way to improving things. Whether that is as you said, taking mini-game mechanics to core gameplay or core game mechanics to mini-games.