Hardcore, easy mode and the XI veteran

[whoopeeragon]

If we agree on that what could we possibly disagree on? XD

An enemy of my enemy is an ally. (I think I got that saying wrong, but the main subject remains the same. )

Also did Yoshi-P really say derp?

Look no further:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...481#post238481

Second last paragraph, first word.

Having personally never played XI, I'm in no position to say yay or nay. What knowledge I glean of FFXI is done through research and other friends. But hearing many people's thoughts and views on the subject, it seems that the OP has done very well in discussing the subject in a succinct manner. Approved. (Y)

[MerkinValefor]

I just feel bad ppl didnt have fun in sky. Sea i can understand because it was not very melee friendly, but i still log on and kill things in sky. Just cant imagine playing the game that long if you truly just had no fun in any of the endgame. I personally hated dynamis because the drk gear was mostly a joke, but playing a game you didnt enjoy for 7 years seems crazy.

Side note: the forced long group grinding did have benefits even though they could wear on the patience at times. It taught you how to manage your resources with a group and basic etiquette for dealing with other players, such as the simple congratulations upon leveling or giving notice/finding a replacement (this aspect declined as the years went one unfortunately)-Not to say there werent draw backs to the concept, but it did serve a purpose.


Harsh Death penalty:gave you more of an incentive to pay attention to what your doing. call it a time sink, i disagree. Death should not be forgiving imo..

I think the whole xi players and xiv thing comes from players who enjoyed xi and were disappointed that xiv made no effort to cater to those players. We believed we were deserved something for being so loyal to xi and SE believed differently. Xi has some great things that they have perfected over the years which xiv could benefit from and for anyone to say there is nothing, is stupid bullshit and you need to get off your useless hate train.

Anyway i just hope for some znm type system with a story implemented because i thought it was a great when it releases in xi.

edit: i agree a lot of xi endgame could wear me down to the point of not loggin in because if i did i would HAVE to attend the event.XI became a job in that aspect and thats not something i want back. The best thing about xi to me was socialization and the friends i made along the way. The long grind, bad deaths, and crappy drop rates that led you to repeat a fight for months bonded the players through a common pain. Not saying the best way to build relationships but it did work. Xiv doesnt encourage you to group with random players and i wish it did. MMOs were a haven to find like minded nerd friends because of their niche appeal, but trying to please everyone makes this aspect harder.

[zaviermhigo]

XI suffers from classic collective action problems:
-tragedy of the commons
-free riders
-exploitation of the great by the small
-basically anything that falls under self interest theory

when you think about mmos are a good place to study economic and political theory. You had to deal with selfishness in an mmo? C'mon, do I need to say sh$! happens and people are selfish. Finding someone who isn't self interested is harder, I mean more theories in the modern century are based on the supposition man is intrinsically selfish, not good or evil. Its whether or not you chose to get walked on for the sake of the gear you wanted or not, and if you did, and you got the gear, then you paid the price. If not you could of walked away. Why play a game that's no fun and you hate all the people who play it? I played XI, I was fascinated with the online friendships I made with people and how you would genuinely help someone out because you remember how it was at that level. If you take out that random social encounter aspect I don't think XI would be as good, in XIV personally the worst part is relying on my friends and linkshell for everything, rather than random leveling and getting a party. They're changing that now but I really don't think there's any reason to have an mmo you can't reach out and meet random people everyday. XIV is kind of anti social, glad to see this changing though. Of course there are problems with an mmo dependent on other people like XI was, and one of those problems is a time sink. But if you took that aspect of relying on people for at least some things away, my (MINE ONLY MINE, unless you agree) motivation lessens for the overall game.

[Burn]

Personally, I think the OP is wrong about almost everything. He heavily discredits himself by saying things like xp grinds grants 3-5k per hour, boss fights required no skill, or that the game was released with no content. Almost all of FFXIs content was very challenging. It required a significantly greater amount of team work than any other MMO every made. While it is true that the massive time sinks did not make it hardcore, the level to which players had to fight strategically was impeccable. There are few MMO that even come close when it comes to strategic fighting. People complain that it was slow, but that only stems from the fact that at a faster pace users would not have been able to compensate for mistakes on the fly.

I'm going to call BS on 90% of this post, this is how the game was 2004-2007 when I was apart of a LS that dominated their server's endgame.

3-5k EXP was common way back before they boosted base exp on mobs around late 50's-60's. 3-5k was common well before CoP came out, sometimes it was much worse due to how crowded moon, kuftal were, sky sometimes was so crowded you could forget exping there on the weekends.

The endgame was a JOKE.

my LS was the first on the server at killing each CoP wyrm, we knew little to nothing about Vrtra other than it charmed and we one shot it our first time ever pulling it, infact the only things we didn't one shot in the endgame was


-Dynamis Lord due to just unlucky during chain-spell stun one of his tp moves got through and it was something that just happened back then.

-Bahamut rematch, pre-melee burn, we lost our first time and never lost again.

-AV because it was unkillable without cheap gimmicks or it just bugging out. Only kills around this time were Wall of Justice or when it un-expectedly locked itself which later on SE said it was "bugged"

-PW did not exist, my LS had long quit before they added him.


There was nothing challenging about having DD stand under the wing on fafnir/nid, SC+MB aspid, overload BLM+RNG to steamroll KB on all the endgame content pre-toau or limbus since omega/ultima required balanced setups. Eventually you started to stack more SMN's and BLM for CoP wyrms, A SMN army pretty much dominated ToAU HNM with a little melee sprinkled in for Hydra.

I hate to bring up WoW but I was in a top-end guild on WoW during the height of the Ulduar raid before ToC came out, those hardmode fights like firefighter, one keeper yogg, 3 elder freya kills were 100x more harder than anything SE put into FFXI, the end game in FFXI was nothing more but an unbalanced joke, the only challenging thing about FFXI endgame was hoping Ebody,Ridill,D.ring dropped after claiming the mob vs 150 people.

[Exni]

Maybe someone else can chime in with their experience then, 'cause it certainly seems like me, the OP, and just about every FF11 player I know were playing a very different game from you.

No, just you and a few other casual inexperienced players in this thread must have enjoyed wasting your time. Kiote is spot on.

I'm going to call BS on 90% of this post.

I call BS on 100% of your post.. it doesn't even sound remotely true. On those FEW kills you mentioned of even FEWER fights in XI... Screenshots or it didn't happen..

AV was unkillable..? Fail much? Stop claiming XI was just a timesink when you clearly didn't even finish half the content. I'd be surprised if you cleared even half of what you just claimed.

Then you went on to claim WoW was more challenging... LOL! Your done.

[Verecund]

If only I could copy the entire OP into my signature.

+1

[Kobushi]

It's a very nice OP, you make some good points, i never considered myself a hardcore player of FFXI and i always found it quite challenging and not as easy as you make it sound, indeed it was time consuming but that's how i liked it, in the end we got a feeling it was all worth it, that's all i would disagree with you. I can say this lifted my spirits up a little considering the future of this game, i'll try no to quit it for now and hang around to see it change for a while

[LittleLala]

Let me start this by saying there was nothing hardcore about Final Fantasy XI.

->

Because in the end, casual players don't want hand outs. They just want to play.

Beautifully written eloquently phrasing what most of us want to say as we're all other-wise drowned in the mob drone of protesting "Hard core" players and those who enjoy complaining. If you play a game like this I would assume you play to challenege yourself, not only the game - a good player takes the time to establish how to play not through grinds as you say but through a close bond with the job over time in all sorts of situations. Thank you for saying what needed to be said. Props to the SE team and Yoshi for the direction they're taking the game =D

[Wynn]

Dear freaking god that OP was beautiful. Now lets watch the "hardcores" froth at the mouth because the truth hurts so good.

[Rebwolf]

The Ifrit fight looked challenging, and super fun.