The Illusion of Choice

[Jetstream_Fox]

Illusion of choice is real...Yoshi acknowledges it, WOW has acknowledged it, everyone with half a brain has. Get on our level plx.

Really? Because I'm pretty sure Diablo, Borderlands, Destiny and even ESO all give you the ability to choose how to play a class. Each of those games all fall under the mmo genre within a degree. Yoshi may acknowledged that there isn't any builds in this game but that obviously isn't entirety true, we in fact do have builds in very small scale. A DRG may choose to use the Gordian Trident over Rhongomiant simply because they rather have the 71 crit rate over the 102 skill speed. A WHM might want to choose the Majestas over the Gordian Cane, because they want the determination the Majestas has over the spell speed of the Gordian Cane. Choice doesn't just mean someone rather be a fire mage or ice mage, it also includes the gear the player utilizes as well.

[Seraphix2407]

Really? Because I'm pretty sure Diablo, Borderlands, Destiny and even ESO all give you the ability to choose how to play a class. Each of those games all fall under the mmo genre within a degree.

Borderlands and destiny mmo? That's like saying warfare is mmo. So no.
The problem with ''choice'' you mentioned, the weapons. One of the weapons will always be better. Weapon dmg> If you lets say have ilvl 220 but raid weapon is ilvl 230 and you obtain it, you rather use that, because weapon dmg> all. That's not a choice, that's something you want/have to use.

[Jetstream_Fox]

Borderlands and destiny mmo? That's like saying warfare is mmo. So no.
The problem with ''choice'' you mentioned, the weapons. One of the weapons will always be better. Weapon dmg> If you lets say have ilvl 220 but raid weapon is ilvl 230 and you obtain it, you rather use that, because weapon dmg> all. That's not a choice, that's something you want/have to use.

Interesting. Because I'm pretty sure I said it has elements that are present in mmos, not that it is a true mmo. Diablo and Borderlands all have lobbies, bank systems, raiding, trading, pvp and character builds. These are Elena that generally are found in mmos like this one we play.

As for your example using this game I roll BRD and I have the 210 relic pants and the 200 Void Ark pants, but guess which one I use, the Void Ark pants. Why? Because it has crit rate and the relic pants have a ridiculous unnecessary amount of accuracy. So for me I take the crit rate, simply because something appears to be better doesn't mean it is.

Let me explain that, just because a weapon maybe better because it has high damage doesn't mean it works in every situation, if you actual played Diablo or Borderlands in depth, you'd understand that. In those games enemies have resistances to elements and overall damage, just because you have a gun that does 500 base damage doesn't mean you'll be doing more damage. The enemy might have a weakness to poison that grants 100 extra damage, so using that poison weapon that has 250 base damage and 150 poison on this said enemy with a poison damage debuff of 100 would total out your overall damage to 550 instead of just 500 using that weapon with 500 base damage.

This game doesn't offer anything like that but gives up the option to build on our stats to a very small portion by mixing and matching gear sets. Which is where the choice of the player comes into light, you can roll a full raid set or a full relic set and that's completely fine, but you also have the choice to use all the gear out of each gear table to customize your stats. Which is what end game players have done since T5.

[Seraphix2407]

This game doesn't offer anything like that but gives up the option to build on our stats to a very small portion by mixing and matching gear sets. Which is where the choice of the player comes into light, you can roll a full raid set or a full relic set and that's completely fine, but you also have the choice to use all the gear out of each gear table to customize your stats. Which is what end game players have done since T5.

Yes it's true what end game players have done since t5, they prefer stats over the ilvl (if it does improve your dps) But when it comes to weapons, no. Never did some one pick up a less weapon dmg weapon over a weapon with less dmg on it and better stats for the class.
This is only gear and I can see and understand why. I do own the VA pants for brd and I do also own the gear from diadem, and its giving me crit and det and acc, so those are better, including the 9 dex is also great. Ive done all raids and honestly never seen some one ever pick up a weapon with less weapon dmg over the other one because it has better stats. This isn't diabolo or borderlands, you cant compare how weapons works here vs the other games. If it did something what borderlands do, then I can see why, but it doesn't. I see your point, but comparing how weapons work in this game vs borderlands isn't something you can do. The gear setup in FF14 is linear, it really is. You slightly have some choices but they aren't that great or big deal to make it unique for each players.

[Reynhart]

Yes it's true what end game players have done since t5, they prefer stats over the ilvl (if it does improve your dps) But when it comes to weapons, no. Never did some one pick up a less weapon dmg weapon over a weapon with less dmg on it and better stats for the class.

It's mostly because WD trumps main stats, which, in turn, trump secondary stats.
BUT, we're seeing that now between Thordan weapons and Anima. Having only 5 lvl more doesn't compensate bad itemization.

[Seraphix2407]

It's mostly because WD trumps main stats, which, in turn, trump secondary stats.
BUT, we're seeing that now between Thordan weapons and Anima. Having only 5 lvl more doesn't compensate bad itemization.

For BRD and MCH the only difference is the main stats and different secondary stats. Id say thordan gun is better than the relic weapon for MCH. The ilvl 210 is still better than 205, 1 more weapon dmg and some extra stats.

[Reynhart]

For BRD and MCH the only difference is the main stats and different secondary stats. Id say thordan gun is better than the relic weapon for MCH. The ilvl 210 is still better than 205, 1 more weapon dmg and some extra stats.

For PLD, I'm really not sure if "1 WD, 3 STR and 3 Deter" makes up for "49 Crit" between Hauteclaire and Sword Of The Heavens...because who cares about the 51 parry

[Malzian]

Really? Because I'm pretty sure Diablo, Borderlands, Destiny and even ESO all give you the ability to choose how to play a class.

Diablo isn't an MMO, it's a Multiplayer Dungeon crawler. Borderlands isn't an MMO, it's a Multiplayer FPS. Destiny is an MMO (of sorts), but your freedom of choice there is more due to the fact that it is an FPS so freedom of play is generally inherent.

Now ESO is an MMO and it has some deeply seeded faults within its system which in some way or another can actually be tied back to your ability to 'choose' how your play, or at the very least the appearance that you get to choose how you play. Yes, you can choose whether or not you want to focus on one particular family of spells, or a particular type of weapon... but when you get into the actual gameplay it becomes almost immediately apparent that there are just some 'choices' you can make for your play that just plain don't work. My first attempt at playing ESO I decided to play my normal Elder Scrolls style which is stealth and ambush... it's my choice to play that and it's fully there. However if you actually try to play that style you soon find out it's completely unworkable since someone else is likely to come up and steamroll that mob you just spend the past minute working your way behind to do your ambush attacks.