Live Letter 3.2 tank changes, vit effects tank attack

[FinalWolf]

As a tank it upsets me greatly I will have more HP while maintaing the same attack power.

I will no longer have to fight a dps for their gear.

I am extremely upset.

[Andrea]

In 2.0 the problem was that people will always take double paladin so they had to make adjustments to encourage the use of warrior

Are you saying warrior was indeed not perfect like they claimed?

Also on the dragoon point. Ninja coming out doesn't change the facts that they were wrong about dragoons being perfect either.

Im also confused on your last point on BLM changes when talking about tanks. They said that we needed more time with the classes and to learn them. After 7-8? months it is still the same from day 1. Warrior is clearly the better of the three tanks.

[UBERHAXED]

Are you saying warrior was indeed not perfect like they claimed?
Also on the dragoon point. Ninja coming out doesn't change the facts that they were wrong about dragoons being perfect either.

Im also confused on your last point on BLM changes when talking about tanks. They said that we needed more time with the classes and to learn them. After 7-8? months it is still the same from day 1. Warrior is clearly the better of the three tanks.

2.0 there was a problem with meta in general. People had parties of 2xPLD, 2xWHM, 2xBLM, 2xBRD. Because DPS standards were a lot lower in 2.0 meta strategies were mostly about sac pulls (before dungeons changes), invincibility to survive attacks, and large group pulls to AoE. These were the only jobs you can applied these strategies to. Because even with bard changes in the 2.0 mini patches meta barely changed, they had to introduce hard changes in 2.1 (LB changes) and try to make the other classes more appealing to meta. This included making homogenizing warrior and PLD so they can say "you can continue using your old strategies using warrior, please try it out!".

There was no statement (I don't think anyone said this ever, official or not) that dragoon was perfect. The issue was when they released Ninja it did incredible damage, with party synergy with no positionals. Meta will shift to using the easiest classes with the most advantage (or the least disadvantages) and since everyone carried ninja, it was a choice between dragoon and monk. This was not an issue before 2.4 since you didn't have to make the choice. Since they both played similar but monk did higher damage, they decided to have dragoon drop the positionals (i.e. make it with less disadvantages) to make it more appealing. And of course they nerfed ninja so it was now a fair toss up between the 3 melee. Casters had similar adjustments and bard was still a required job for every party. As for the magic defense thing... Well I guess they intended for players to use dragoon in a different way for strategies involving tanking and they didn't catch on so they just scrapped the think entirely. They kept the higher phy def for some reason though (not that it matters anymore since 3.0 warrior).

You say they are adjusting MCH and AST for the reason you described (which is dubious). They have stated (and already previewed in the video) that all 13 jobs are getting adjustments, not just PLD, MCH, and AST. They make adjustments to jobs when they do not like the meta generated by players (probably also to prevent some issues with circumventing mechanics in new raids). Meta right now is WAR, DRK, DRG, melee/caster, melee/caster, Ranged, WHM, SCH. They want it to be any tank, any tank, any melee, any melee, any caster, any range, any healer, any healer. The only way they can do this is to homogenize jobs so we can use anything with our old strategies or to make them disadvantageous when deviated from expected. The other adjustments are either quality of life (icon changes or something) or an adjustment needed in anticipation of the mechanics of the new raid tier (they are probably hinting at a lot of movement in the new tier with the adjustments to BLM).

[Waeksyn]

I expect that tank damage overall will drop. The effect of VIT on damage will increase but not to the level previously reached by using STR. SE doesn't want tanks to out DPS any DPS classes, as they did at the HW launch with the crappy execution of MCH and the nerf to BRD caused by the initial implementation of WM.

I also expect that PLD's sword stance will get adjusted to be a damage boost across the board (and not just for auto attacks) in order to level DPS capabilities (which will now be lower) among the tank jobs.

[PArcher]

As for the magic defense thing... Well I guess they intended for players to use dragoon in a different way for strategies involving tanking and they didn't catch on so they just scrapped the think entirely. They kept the higher phy def for some reason though (not that it matters anymore since 3.0 warrior).

DRG got a magic defense buff purely because you *could not* bring a DRG into T13. Just for them to have a chance to survive would require Stoneskin and Adlo on them for every unavoidable AoE, and even then they could *still* die. This was actually one of the two big reasons for the "DRG are only good for tanking the floor" thing; the other being the old insane animation lock time on Jumps.

The higher physical defense is for flavor, and likely for those "oops" moments when your MT dies; most bosses' auto attacks are physical damage, and a DRG tanking while a tank is rezed has a better chance of staying alive than any other DPS. Yeah, not the most viable thing (esp with a MNK in the party) but I've said raids several times when I was a DRG because of this.

[SpookyGhost]

SE doesn't want tanks to out DPS any DPS classes, as they did at the HW launch with the crappy execution of MCH and the nerf to BRD caused by the initial implementation of WM.

And then that was fixed, so currently the fact that tanks can do decent DPS is fine.

However, due to the "we no longer want to use strict DPS checks in raids" thing, they will have to lower overall DPS of tanks by a pretty large margin otherwise we'd end up with 6 tank progression parties.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

And then that was fixed, so currently the fact that tanks can do decent DPS is fine.

However, due to the "we no longer want to use strict DPS checks in raids" thing, they will have to lower overall DPS of tanks by a pretty large margin otherwise we'd end up with 6 tank progression parties.

1300vs2000 is pretty significant.

I don't think that is an issue.

[UBERHAXED]

DRG got a magic defense buff purely because you *could not* bring a DRG into T13. Just for them to have a chance to survive would require Stoneskin and Adlo on them for every unavoidable AoE, and even then they could *still* die. This was actually one of the two big reasons for the "DRG are only good for tanking the floor" thing; the other being the old insane animation lock time on Jumps.
The higher physical defense is for flavor, and likely for those "oops" moments when your MT dies; most bosses' auto attacks are physical damage, and a DRG tanking while a tank is rezed has a better chance of staying alive than any other DPS. Yeah, not the most viable thing (esp with a MNK in the party) but I've said raids several times when I was a DRG because of this.

(Reading comprehension check???) Yes we all know why they changed magic defense for dragoon. The quote questioned why it was there in the first place and why physical defense remained high after the change.

[PArcher]

(Reading comprehension check???) Yes we all know why they changed magic defense for dragoon. The quote questioned why it was there in the first place and why physical defense remained high after the change.

Writing check plz. I still don't know what you were talking about reading it three times over if its not what I responded to.

Although, one thing that does stand out of the mess, why was MNK and DRG a no-choice option? MNK - MNK - BRD - Caster was higher damage than DRG - MNK - BRD - Caster at one point IIFC, especially in fights where LB3 was not needed (I know several very early T13 kills were double MNK, as were other FCoB fights. Though, thinking about it, that was also when NIN was "OP", so...)

[UBERHAXED]

Writing check plz. I still don't know what you were talking about reading it three times over if its not what I responded to.

Well now that we have identified the issue with comprehension (not sure why you even bother writing that, it was pretty much digging a hole).

Although, one thing that does stand out of the mess, why was MNK and DRG a no-choice option? MNK - MNK - BRD - Caster was higher damage than DRG - MNK - BRD - Caster at one point IIFC, especially in fights where LB3 was not needed (I know several very early T13 kills were double MNK, as were other FCoB fights. Though, thinking about it, that was also when NIN was "OP", so...)

I see you also have problems with seeing context. Ninja just got released in 2.4, with final coil. Early final coil clears were in the first couple of weeks. People have to either spend time leveling or spend time in progression... That said, damage being higher has nothing to do with mechanical ease and also has nothing to do with meta. Regardless of what you think occurred, that was the meta and that was the state of Ninja, to the point where it was changed a few weeks after release. Seeing as you have zero semblance of balance or (or context for that matter) I don't think you should be in a discussion about balance when tackling a more complex issue, such a tank balance.