Show your Miqo'te !!

[Alahra]

I was at the post-cap most of the day yesterday so I couldn't really interject my two cents. I've gotten tired of the overall thread lately as the posts have become kind of spammy and, indeed, cliquish. Much of the thread is a handful of posters having a conversation through screenshots, and given how quickly the thread moves as a result, it is very easy for screenshots with actual content (new glamours, interesting angles, lighting, get-togethers, new entries to the thread, etc.) to get pushed down and ultimately drowned out. A lot of these regular posts are also, essentially, repetitive, covering the same basic things over and over (and indeed, some of the screenshots themselves are repeats). I have on occasion gotten "conversational" as well, and it's okay to a degree, but when it's becoming a large part of the thread, that's a bit extreme.

There are individuals out there in the world who, in social environments, will tend to shy away if a few central voices drown out the rest of the conversation. No one was trying to do anything like that on purpose, but inadvertently created an environment where quieter voices could have felt intimidated to a degree that made them feel unable to contribute themselves.

I'm typically one of those types myself. Personally, I've pretty much stopped looking at screenshots in a screenshot thread because the thread moves so quickly and is full of so much repetitive content that it's faster to skim through to clear the posts out of my "new posts" list and then post whatever screenshot I had in mind to post. That was the only way I could really feel comfortable posting—by ignoring everyone else because the signal to noise ratio had gotten too out of balance by focusing on a small group of regular posters who spend most of their daily posts on this thread. I like to post elsewhere on the boards, and it's honestly frustrating at time how fast the thread moves because I try to put lot of thought into posting and try to curate the shots I do put up, only to have them more than likely lost in the sheer volume of posts that go on. I can't compete with that volume of posting and also engage in discussions about the game elsewhere on the boards at all, so I've largely disengaged from the thread.

But ultimately, I've been posting the glamour shots for my own benefit more than anything—I take pride in them, and having somewhere to pin them was still enough for me, so I hadn't particularly said anything. However, I also don't fault Coratanni/Whiskers from actually saying something.

What I do fault, though, were replies that came off as dismissive and show (perhaps inadvertently, I will admit) a startling lack of willingness to engage with and understand someone else, such as these:

Nah, don't sweat it, just retaliate with more pics of your own.

Post a picture, or two, or three and then voila, they are involved in the "Show you Miqo'te" thread.

If you want to be involved just start posting and chating.

The thing is that it's not always easy for people to just post (or speak up, in non-forum situations). Everyone has different levels of extroversion and introversion and different levels of comfort in social situations. Sometimes even speaking up to say "Hey, it feels hard to speak up here" can be a tough thing to do for some folks (myself included—though I'm personally much better in digital spaces, I hide in corners in public gatherings in "meatspace" rather often). Simply being told "Just post!" isn't really helpful: often the best sort of response to things like this is more direct encouragement (something like "But I love your pictures!" for the thread at hand, as an example).

Some of the responses even came across a little mean-spirited or flippant, suggesting that there shouldn't have been a "problem" at all, again displaying a general lack of empathy and understanding:

Rather than whine, why not do something positive an post your own pictures?

Sorry, I absolutely don't get what the supposed problem is.

Thanks guys I'm glad no one else feels like we were trying to take over or anything.. still not sure what the big deal was. But lets move on

well I don't know who those people are but it seems this thread still has plenty of awesome people posting almost daily. So sorry for losing people?

Why would I feel terrible because a few people out of thousand don't want to post because of me?

Other posts came across as a bit antagonistic, like this one:

Because someone lacked the confidence to post their own contribution, abnd blamed an easy target (prominant posters are easy targets) for making them feel that way.

A request that others perhaps leave room for others to contribute is not blaming anyone, and ultimately attacking a person's character in response to that request (timidly worded though it may have been) shows the person giving response again refusing to attempt to understand another human being. Not everyone is a confident, social butterfly, and you know nothing of their life circumstances that might have kept them from being so, let alone genetics and any number of environmental factors. Nobody in this thread should be trotting around on such a high horse like that. Compassion towards others goes a long way.

So after all the dismissive, blunt posts refusing to try to understand where someone was coming from, I'm not surprised people feel like the thread has gotten cliquish or that Ruri has a bit of a fanclub. Other promiment posters rushed to her defense almost immediately, despite Ruri's initial response which actually tried to engage with the concern. Ageofwar didn't really come across as defensive or dismissive as the conversation progressed (for which I have to give a /thumbsup).

What all this has shown me is that I don't want to participate in this thread anymore. I dislike people who don't attempt to understand others, who tend to dismiss those with differing viewpoints and concerns in a self-centered, bullyish manner, and it seems some of the most frequent posters here fit that bill. So this will be my last post here.

I just felt that it was unfair for everyone to dogpile on Whiskers the way they did, and I've been reading through the responses seething with frustration because I couldn't speak up against it due to the posting limit. By the time I'm able to post this, most folks will probably have moved on, but I believe it needs to be said anyway.

[Ageofwar]

a lot of insightful stuff

I, for one will take your comments into consideration moving forward

Let's move on and get back to the fun :-D

I've gotten tired of the overall thread lately as the posts have become kind of spammy and, indeed, cliquish. Much of the thread is a handful of posters having a conversation through screenshots

I would like to apologies for my part in this, i was just going with the flow

There are individuals out there in the world who, in social environments, will tend to shy away if a few central voices drown out the rest of the conversation. No one was trying to do anything like that on purpose, but inadvertently created an environment where quieter voices could have felt intimidated to a degree that made them feel unable to contribute themselves.

The thing is that it's not always easy for people to just post (or speak up, in non-forum situations). Everyone has different levels of extroversion and introversion and different levels of comfort in social situations. Sometimes even speaking up to say "Hey, it feels hard to speak up here" can be a tough thing to do for some folks (myself included—though I'm personally much better in digital spaces, I hide in corners in public gatherings in "meatspace" rather often). Simply being told "Just post!" isn't really helpful: often the best sort of response to things like this is more direct encouragement (something like "But I love your pictures!" for the thread at hand, as an example).

it will be hard to understand this but in real life I'm quite a shy person, I really have a hard time in social situations, but hiding behind the mask that is "Age ofWar" (sorry Ruri, one mask you are not going to have a look behind any time soon) a lot of my shyness just goes away.

up until I made quite a ballsy comment toward Ruri because of one of her screenshot i liked i only posted her once in a blue moon and only pictures of one of my retainers I like to dress up

I've been posting the glamour shots for my own benefit more than anything—I take pride in them, and having somewhere to pin them was still enough for me, so I hadn't particularly said anything.

Please DON'T stop posting, I, for one enjoy everyone's pictures

[AstralKaos]

snip

I absolutely get the complaint once the actual complaint was posted, really I do, what I didn't get was what they posted. Hence why I posted (and if it didn't come off as actually being confused, then sorry) what I did saying I didn't get it, and if it wasn't viewed as an actual suggestion (it was) then I can nderstand. It's one thing to say "hey, guys can you maybe hold back on all the pictures, it's turning into a personal chat room between you all" which would've been fine, but what was posted wasn't as such and one part was essentially "so and so says" and to finish it up once it all was understood to come out and call every one of those in this "clique" a bunch of fanged fan club members... if what I posted was seen as antagonistic then sorry, but in my view I wasn't hostile until they posted that outlandish and unnecessary reply.

Oh, and for the record I have crippling social anxiety outside of the game, I'm the straight opposite of a social butterfly, in fact one of the main reasons I play this game (aside from liking it, obviously) is because it's actually helped/helping me overcome parts of that, even if it's digital it is interaction and social activity.

Sorry for my part in this spam and "clique" stuff, it wasn't my intention and didn't realize that it was an issue for some.

[Kosmos992k]

Stuff

You talk of people piling on someone. That 'someone' made an unspecified complaint against other posters and claimed that others felt the same way. But it seemed to come down to whether they felt able to post to this topic or not, and whether they felt welcome or not. Since then this topic has devolved into people calling others names, or labeling each other as belonging to one side or another.

Now, I'm sorry if you think this is too harsh, but let's just be grown ups here. This is a public forum, there is nothing, and I mean *nothing* stopping people from posting here. Social anxiety be damned, I quite unhappily suffer said affliction; you want to talk introversion, OK, I'm a card carrying member of that club also. But like many others I find that it is easier to overcome those issues in the online context of a forum, or in-game. It was said that people didn't feel able to post because others were posting, or that they felt unwelcome because of some form of clique, which amusingly I'm apparently part of despite not knowing anyone in this topic in-game or IRL at all.

The 2 points I made at the beginning and will stand firm on are;
The only person that can control how you feel about anything is yourself, no one else. No one was posting pictures to make others feel unwelcome, they were simply having fun. In the absence of any intent or overt action to make others feel unwelcome or excluded, we can only look inward if we feel unwelcome or excluded. Perhaps that sounds harsh to some, but it is the simple truth.

Secondly, you have a choice in this type of situation, you can either use your post cap to complain, or you can use your post cap to contribute. The only thing that is needed to feel welcome and included in this topic is simply to post your screen shots.

So my advice was to stop complaining and blaming others for how you feel, and instead use your post cap to post great pictures, and get the lovely upvotes and positive messages. For that, I have been jumped on by several posters I've never met before, it was suggested that I'm part of some kind of fan club, clique or circle here, which is utterly ludicrous considering I've posted to this topic for less than two weeks. I believe it's suggested that some posters received 'fangs bared' responses (from me?), I know what I wrote, and I stand by it. If people don't like the truth, then that's not my problem.

So after all the dismissive, blunt posts refusing to try to understand where someone was coming

Pointing out to someone that they control their own feelings and that contributing by posting is better than complaining is not dismissing others nor refusing to try to understand where they are coming from. What it is though is leaving private concerns and feelings where they belong, in private. I would have thought that for people with social anxiety, the last thing they want to do is talk about their inner feelings. But apparently trying to avoid that is being dismissive and refusing to understand.

You talk of piling on, well, apart from the multi-quote from you, I've been on the receiving end of quite a few, apparently angry, posts in this stupid little drama. The entire time I have stressed that everyone should feel free to post and have fun, and that it's more constructive to post pictures rather than complaining.

Please explain why you consider this;

Because someone lacked the confidence to post their own contribution, abnd blamed an easy target (prominant posters are easy targets) for making them feel that way.

...to be antagonistic. The situation as described was someone saying they felt unwelcome and excluded, and so did not wish to post. Sounds pretty much like they are lacking in confidence to jump in, doesn't it? At the same time the person singled out specific posters who have been prominent in this topic. Sounds like blaming the prominent posters for how they feel if you as me. Is it antagonistic to say these things without sugar coating them?

So, thanks for dumping on me, and leaving the topic

So this will be my last post here.

Well, thank you very much, I love you to.


Yeah, I'm annoyed now. I wasn't annoyed before, but I am now.

[Coratanni]

Yeah, I'm annoyed now. I wasn't annoyed before, but I am now.

You can be annoyed all you want, but if you take a look at the like count from all of the posters over this discussion, you'll discover(if you're open to learning), there are more people who dont agree with you, that agree with Alahra and other posters supporting what I posted. I may not have spoken eloquently about it when I brought it up, and my own posts may not be well liked by anyone. But the people who have echoed my statements in much better wording and approach, are clearly more in sync by double, the people who view this thread, than your viewpoint.

So obviously I was not whining. It was never about me. This was about getting other people to post instead of the regular 4 people. And the reasons why new people werent posting. You may not understand it, but I wasn't lying. I wasnt making it about me. I was just making the regular posters aware of why we werent getting some new content from fresh faces.

I'm far too old to deal with childish, bullyish opinions of some narcasists. Not everyone thrives in a social setting when it is completely and unequivocally dominated by 3-4 people who dominate every single page, page after page after page. Yes this is a public forum, but isnt it better that we try and include more people?

[NorthernLadMSP]

Good post

I am glad you spoke up about it, because I have been thinking the same thing for awhile now. I was also getting tired of coming to this thread and seeing page after page after page of the same Ruri pictures. So, I applaud you for speaking up!

[Ruri]

This is my final post here. The lack of empathy isnt worth trying to bring more people to be involved. Or be involved myself. This isnt a take my ball and go home line, but a resignation. You win.

I am glad you spoke up about it, because I have been thinking the same thing for awhile now. I was also getting tired of coming to this thread and seeing page after page after page of the same Ruri pictures. So, I applaud you for speaking up!

I already apologized several times I don't know what people want from me anymore. I cannot apologize for what other people post here that is out of my control. Good bye Coratinni you will be missed, and I mean that.

I cannot even look at this thread anymore without feeling horrible so will also be taking a LOA.

[AstralKaos]

snip

Yet not far too old to call people names such as fanged fan club members, childish, "narcasists" and continue to bang on even though the "clique" have acknowledged the problem and apologized for it, which for the record wasn't from your post but from others being.

And let's talk about the bullying part (yet more false claims from you), is it bullying because several posters disagreed with you or called you out due to your rather vague post? Speaking of bullying, it's quite funny that once again you keep on despite again us acknowledging it and so on, that you feel compelled to pull numbers games "we have more than you, you're wrong" and continue with your nice remarks and putting people into groups snark. And you got empathy, acknowledgment and understanding, plus an apology, from several of us, but sure, keep on with the hyperbole...

I agree, we should try to include more people. Again, I acknowledge that what we was doing wasn't good, maybe it also encouraged some to come in and post, too, but I see what was wrong and how it can be discouraging.



From this point I won't bother replying, all was said several posts ago, by all of us in fact in acknowledgement of the problem, it's now carried on thanks to unnecessary replies and continuation of this. If you want the last word or whatever, or to continue beating the dead horse it's all yours.

I already apologized several times I don't know what people want from me anymore. I cannot apologize for what other people post here that is out of my control. Good bye Coratinni you will be missed, and I mean that.

I cannot even look at this thread anymore without feeling horrible so will also be taking a LOA.

Nobody wants anything Ruri, apologies and an understanding has already happened, and you needn't apologize for anybody else either as it's a two way street and if they want to keep saying things to instigate more that's on them (from either party).

To be honest, I'm also glad it was posted, just wish it wasn't in the way it was and then everyone could have came out of this better, it's all just gotten out of hand and now several people either feel bad, horrible or not wanting to come back. Bunch of misunderstandings, ignorance, misinterpretations and gun-jumping really, I'm sorry for my part in that, too.

[Kosmos992k]

stuff

Last time I checked, popularity contests such as random up votes were not an indicator of truth, veracity or anything other than popularity measured against an unknown scale.

Age != wisdom.

Again, the best way for more people to feel included is for them to post their pictures.

Let's say the topic gets 30 replies a day, and there are 4 posters who typically put out 4-5 posts each, and 10 or so doing 1 a day. That's 2/3 of the topic, my gosh, it sounds terrible, those 4 are completely flooding the topic. We should make them post once or twice a day at most....the net effect of which is posting volume drops significantly and the topic becomes stagnant. Literally suggesting that posters who post a lot should stop has a chilling effect on the topic, and posting volume declines.

Alternately, let's say that there are 30 posts a day, and 4 posters who average 4-5 posts a day. Now, add half a dozen more posters who contribute 2 posts a day and 10 more who throw in 1 a day. Now you have upwards of 50 posts a day, the 20 or so from the core group of regular posters is now effectively diluted reducing the apparent domination by a small group of regular posters, additionally you now have more people posting, more voices, more opinions and above all more Miqo'te. Suggesting and having more people join in creates more posts per day and everybody wins.

So, which scenario would you prefer?

My last word on this topic. I called no one names. I've offered frank advice, in so far as I am advising others that they control how they feel, and should post freely to become involved, become part of the' community, and share their pictures with everyone else. I have consistently said that people should please post their pictures of their pretty/hansdom cats so they can get up-votes and compliments, because that is the *very* best way to affect change here and at the same time feel involved rather than excluded.

That's it, all you get from me now is pictures of Kosmos, and I won't feel inclined to limit myself to 1 or 2 a day.

[Skivvy]

Snip

Honestly, my biggest complaint is that this thread turned so damn spammy. I would honestly prefer that this thread have to be bumped from page 3 every so often vs. have the thread continue as it has been. I probably would never had said something, as I tend to avoid confrontation of this sort, but figured since the can of worms was opened I would add my two cents as well.

Anyway, everyone is obviously allowed to keep posting as much or little as they want. I love screenshot threads as they are generally filled with a lot of fun and spiffy shots, but our thread (IMO) turned into a massive amount of near-identical shots posted over and over again. I hope you can understand the difference and see why some people were turned off by it.

I've been posting in this thread since 2013, and I'd like nothing more than to see it still be an active and fun thread. Perhaps with all of this finally coming to a head, maybe we can all move beyond any perceived cattiness (ha ha) from those who may have varying opinions, and strike a balance to make this a happy place again. :3





Aaaaaaand, not posting a screenshot, but one of my favourite miqo videos. Best peace offering I've got atm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3LGf9SSWrU