People selling runs, why not talking about it ?

[Niwashi]

I do not "Put a group together" for any sales. My static sells runs during our raid time if we have all other content downed for the week. We don't go outside our raid time to handle a sale and I don't find people to form the 7 to sell the content.

Putting the group together was done when you formed your static. Sometimes groups who sell runs form that team for the express purpose of selling runs, and other times (probably more often) the static is formed for their own advancement, but then sells runs occasionally on the side. But in either case, they're able to sell runs because they have a static group already formed and advanced enough to clear the specified content.

I also do not sell services to find 6 other people. No one does that.

Well, essentially, anytime a static sells a run, they're doing that. No matter how good you are, nobody would be likely to pay you much just to join by yourself. You get paid because you have an entire static team with you (well, a team minus one, since the buyer needs a spot).

A potential buyer who doesn't have a static of their own but wants to complete a run has two choices. They can try to recruit a brand new team, finding seven other people all available at the same time and willing to run the same content they want. Or they can pay an already existing static team to do the run they want and bring them along. Building a viable team from scratch for the purpose of a single run is hard, frustrating, and more often than not unsuccessful (which I'd assume is why you say "you can't pay me enough" to do it). But getting an existing team to take an outsider along typically just costs a lot of gil.

That's the difference that justifies a cost in the millions. It's not because of the nine minutes you're willing to spend clearing something on behalf of someone else. It's because, by already having a full coordinated team capable of doing that, you're sparing the buyer from having to create one.

[Ossom]

The cost comes from the guarantee that the content will be downed in a timely fashion with the buyer being the sole person who gets to roll on loot. That is where the cost comes from. It doesn't come for anything else, it doesn't come from the person getting to participate. It doesn't come from the person getting a reliable static for an hour. It doesn't come from the person learning to down the content. It comes from what the agreed upon sale was. The loot and/or achievement of the content being downed. Otherwise you are saying that I am allowed to take someones money and roll on the loot, or not even clear it honestly, because they didn't buy the loot or the clear, they bought us 7 people coming together to run content with them.

If that was the case I wouldn't get any buyers. "5M for 15Mins in Thordan with my static, no guarantee on Kill or Loot but you get have a static for 15Mins"

Do you think the buyer wants the guaranteed kill and loot or the faux static? (Anyone can find 6 other people who are down to wipe for 15Mins for 5M, hell I would sell that every day of the week)

Edit: A "Full coordinated team" is hours of work, week after week of banging our heads against content. This is why I say no one would be able to afford it because there really isn't enough gil in the game and enough use for gil to buy the time we spent handling content, gearing our characters up and learning how to effectively play our class. You can't not buy a static and that is not what any content seller on this game sells.

[PArcher]

A potential buyer who doesn't have a static of their own but wants to complete a run has two choices. They can try to recruit a brand new team, finding seven other people all available at the same time and willing to run the same content they want. - - Building a viable team from scratch for the purpose of a single run is hard, frustrating, and more often than not unsuccessful.

You do realize that people do this all the time, especially when content is new? Even people with statics will form parties in the PF, or through linkshells, and learn and farm content. This notion that you're either in a static, or you buy runs is, well, complete BS.

Yes, sometimes it will fail. Learn from it and move on. Blacklist the big problem players, get in contact with the good people. But most importantly, make sure *you* are not the reason these parties are failing. Because if it is you...well, you don't have much more choice than to be carried, do you?

[MeiUshu]

Because if it is you...well, you don't have much more choice than to be carried, do you?

there is a frontier between being carried and learning a fight. People tend to mix both considering any and all that are in learning process, at times dying often and making dumb mistakes several times in a row, as them wanting to be carried. There is a difference but nobody wants to know about this *frontier* really.

Also someone that pays for a run doesnt necesseraly want to be carried he at times also just want an opportunity to try a specific fight and learn it.

[PArcher]

there is a frontier between being carried and learning a fight. People tend to mix both considering any and all that are in learning process, at times dying often and making dumb mistakes several times in a row, as them wanting to be carried. There is a difference but nobody wants to know about this *frontier* really.

Also someone that pays for a run doesnt necesseraly want to be carried he at times also just want an opportunity to try a specific fight and learn it.

Yes, there is. But if every party you join fails, and people start to avoid you...

I love people who are willing to learn and put effort into fights, willing to admit mistakes and do what they can to improve. But there are people who are stubborn, who won't admit they are wrong...those are who that is directed at.

[Ossom]

there is a frontier between being carried and learning a fight. People tend to mix both considering any and all that are in learning process, at times dying often and making dumb mistakes several times in a row, as them wanting to be carried. There is a difference but nobody wants to know about this *frontier* really.

Also someone that pays for a run doesnt necesseraly want to be carried he at times also just want an opportunity to try a specific fight and learn it.

This is absolutely true, but a sale party is not that place. It takes time to learn a fight. I do understand that it is very hard to find people to learn a fight in PF, because of many reasons. Mainly because its hard to give people feedback in PF, you do not know if they will accept the feedback/criticism or rage quit or fling insults or even just completely ignore you. But what Kytre is saying is right. You need to recognize the players who do this and recognize the players that want to get better. You also need to recognize your own flaws and make sure you are a later player and not the former.

[CrimsonThunder]

One thing I find interesting is that there are plenty of sellers who openly admit to the practice but so very little who admit to buying a run for something. Do they feel some shame in doing so?

[Kuwagami]

One thing I find interesting is that there are plenty of sellers who openly admit to the practice but so very little who admit to buying a run for something. Do they feel some shame in doing so?

the entire community shames run buyers. Run selelrs on the other hand, not so much. I do understand buyers for being quiet about it

[Seraphix2407]

What I sell is the clear, and the loot. I do not sell the patience to put up with wipes. I do not put any group together for anyone. I will join groups to help people if they ask me though. But they need to put the group together because you can't pay me enough to try and get 7 people together to learn a fight for content I already have cleared. That's not for sale.

If someone made a PF and asked me to join, I'd join and we can start @ 2 and wait for it to fill up, I don't mind.

I agree. I dont really own a group thats pure static for sales but I have enough so I know I can do it different times etc. However, I agree very much on that part when they ask for help, I will help but they need to put a group together, they can't always expect me to get people together, just because I know good players, doesn't always work like that.

One thing I find interesting is that there are plenty of sellers who openly admit to the practice but so very little who admit to buying a run for something. Do they feel some shame in doing so?

I think it's not always about shame, but rather that people will still call it a carry even when some of the buyers can complete the whole raid on their own with 7 other people, those people are simply the ones who can't get people to do it with or people around them just doesnt satisfy what they want, a good group to clear content. When this happens, people will still say: hey its bought content, you got carried. That's not always the case, they buy it for other peoples skill, the other people buy it for a pure carry. That's 2 different things imo.

[MeiUshu]

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yes but is way too easy to accuse those that learn, way too easy. As for the selling of runs, it is the only way to get passed some things, when you wait few hours in a row for nothing and nothing shows up, all you want to do is move forward and you cant because tha thing that you cant do prevents you from moving forward, that is when people want to pay for it...and some are lazy of course..but they arent the majority

I will just give you an example at halloween, there was a player offering 1million gil to accompany him in a dungeon because nobody wanted to do it, all he wanted was to do a creepy dungeon, was fully geared knew the place very well too and we went in unsync....and nobody not even her FC that found it boring did want to come along..those that went were those that received payment for it..how is that right ?..it isnt, right ?..the community as a whole is guilty of this situation.

yeah it happens