The Bottom Feeders: Moves You Never Use and Why (Ver. 2)

[technole]

No, you can cross-class stoneskin in the first or second slot and have it available in lower-levels even before White Mage ever gets the skill. I can even cross-class ghetto-version of Mantra (MNK 42) on WAR/DPS in an earlier slots and it's available even all the way back at Copperbell. Regardless, Stoneskin is not a cooldown either.

Foresight ends up about an overall 6% defense on Warrior, and it has better use even alone when tanking in Deliverance to soak auto-attack damage, then other cooldowns can be used for more mechanical damage.

I'm not sure where Foresight is even being questioned, I only put that along with Rampart for the standard first T13 Flatten rotation. Regardless, Stoneskin was the White Mage's job in end-game because of enhanced 19%, and most of them being interruptible, and tank busters that required actual cooldown use. None of what you said advocates that it's okay during those situations. Like I said, there has to be a situation where the boss is away, or a free GCD where damage cannot be done to ever be worth it due to it's cast time and low-effiency.

Every job contributes to damage on the check. Even healers have a few GCDs to get damage and DoTs up on both knights before the stance. DoTs that go up on the knight before the switch get full-value even if they change to the shield. The notion that oh i'm just a PLD so damage doesn't matter is pretty silly.

[Joe_Schmoe]

1. To post moves that you never, rarely, or just not as frequently use.

2. Why you don’t use them often

3. and what might be done (if anything) to improve their usage (this could be anything from SE implemented changes, to Hotbar suggestions, or situational usages that other people may not have thought of).

1. Virus

2. Doesn't seem to do much considering its duration (10 seconds) and cooldown (90 seconds).

3. I guess just lengthen its duration and/or shorten the cooldown. Or maybe have a "compensation" mechanic (this could probably be said for all the cooldowns in this game now that I think about it) like what WoW has for some of their abilities. If the target fails to receive X damage while Virus is active, its cooldown is reduced by the difference (up to 50%). Heck, I'd have no problems using it then.

[Miscreant]

Those guys haven't done real end-game raid progression then. Eos advantage is being able to effectively "heal" while straight DPSing as Scholar.

The only fight I use Eos for is A4S to be honest, there aren't many abilities that can mitigate Mortal Rev so Fey Covinent is really useful, also Rouse + Whispering Dawn makes healing through the dolls a lot easier. For everything else theres Selene, theres one big hit in Thordan and Soil + Adlo + Deployment tactics at already more than enough. Knowing when to Rouse Selene for Embrace spams should cover the party healing for the most part providing your co-healing is somewhat capable.

1. Virus

Please tell me you are trolling...

Maybe you've just run into some really crappy Pld's, but the downsides you're listing for Pld's cross-classing stone skin are ways in which the move should never be used in the first place. Like I said before, there's nothing willy-nilly about the way a Pld should be using the move, and they most certainly should not be using it as a replacement for their defensive CD's. Like all of their moves, they should be micromanaging it's use to fit in and work with their defensive kit. It's the same for any tank, really. They try to find synergy in their kit for which moves work with which and in what circumstances. The only move a Pld would ever use alone is Hallowed Ground (for obvious reasons).

Cross class skills are fight dependant, Stone Skin is pretty useless for Paladins as enemy attacks will cancel it's cast, but in some situations it's handy. In T13 Bahamut's attacks are somewhat slow but hit hard, there were parts in the fight where the healers would have to focus the party but there would be a big(ish) hit on the MT after, Paladin used to put Stoneskin on them selves for this. But this is a single fight out of many, it's really not something that is the norm.

[Joe_Schmoe]

Please tell me you are trolling...

I'm not. One, I've only done duty finder, with people with various attention spans (or lack thereof), no raiding or anything. It's an unimpressive skill considering the f***ing up we all do that makes the ability useless. Two, as it is now I'm already switching back and forth between 2 X-bars just to do my normal thing (healing and tanking) and I'm goofing up more often than I'd like. I basically have no room for it. Again, Virus just doesn't impress me enough to force me to try to figure out where to put it, and then hope to hell I'll know where it is when I really need it. More functions mean more malfunctions. Maybe if was to ever get into raiding - where people actually communicate with each other - I could probably make use of it. Until then, it sits on the shelf.

[DarkmoonVael]

I'm not. One, I've only done duty finder, with people with various attention spans (or lack thereof), no raiding or anything. It's an unimpressive skill considering the f***ing up we all do that makes the ability useless. Two, as it is now I'm already switching back and forth between 2 X-bars just to do my normal thing (healing and tanking) and I'm goofing up more often than I'd like. I basically have no room for it. Again, Virus just doesn't impress me enough to force me to try to figure out where to put it, and then hope to hell I'll know where it is when I really need it. More functions mean more malfunctions. Maybe if was to ever get into raiding - where people actually communicate with each other - I could probably make use of it. Until then, it sits on the shelf.

You do realise antibody became a thing after virus turned out to be far too powerful in T5 progression without a drawback right? And this is good old regular virus, not traited supervirus.

Virus is exceptionally powerful. Correct use of virus mitigates so much outgoing damage.

Although i get what you mean with virus in the content you are currently running. In dungeons its not as powerful as raids. When you start raiding you will be using it alot more often .

[technole]

The only fight I use Eos for is A4S to be honest, there aren't many abilities that can mitigate Mortal Rev so Fey Covinent is really useful, also Rouse + Whispering Dawn makes healing through the dolls a lot easier. For everything else theres Selene, theres one big hit in Thordan and Soil + Adlo + Deployment tactics at already more than enough. Knowing when to Rouse Selene for Embrace spams should cover the party healing for the most part providing your co-healing is somewhat capable.

I do prefer Selene as much as possible, I also think it's a preference depending on co-healer and party. Even if you want to use Whispering Dawn as effectively two tank regens like back in early A2S days when spike damages phases kind of hurt. Now I feel it doesn't matter, aside from DPS maybe making a croak about attack speed increases.

I also use Dissipation when possible to handle a fairy change for more DPS instead of the ole swift/change. A4S I feel Eos makes the most sense because of "limited" MP resources and Mortal Revolution is pretty heavy even at i210.

For Thordan, I always prefer Eos in the last phases to pad-up possible mistakes (lets just face it, Fey Convent is just too good to ignore in magic heavy situations). Every time I had played Scholar and had to deal with a Phase 9/enrage clear due to DPS earlier deaths, I always felt I had used the best option to preserve a win.

[Mutemutt]

Just stoneskin. It's one of those moves you want to avoid using if you can get away with it and I find that you can get away with it pretty often. I was never a big fan of stoneskin though, even before it got nerfed. Don't really think it needs a change though. I may not use it that often, but it does serve its purpose of being an extra hp buffer to toss when the tank/party needs to take a big hit.

[Minseo]

Stoneskin
Primarily because its mp vs usefulness is terrible, and theres really no actual use for it. I only use it on rare ocassions but most of the time a well timed cure goes a much longer way. 10% doesnt seem like anything noticeable and it usually disappears in 1-2 hits.

Makes me kinda wish I had liked scholar more but whatever...

[File2ish]

Cure III

I rarely ever use it, people in DF runs don't clump together often enough for it to be of use. Plus when overgeared for content a medica is more than enough. Or hell, medica 2 ticks even.

Stoneskin
Primarily because its mp vs usefulness is terrible, and theres really no actual use for it. I only use it on rare ocassions but most of the time a well timed cure goes a much longer way. 10% doesnt seem like anything noticeable and it usually disappears in 1-2 hits.

Mid fight stoneskin is worthless, completely agree. But pre pull? It's essentially free +10% HP since our MP recovers so fast outside of battle. I always get it up on the group outside battle if/when I can.

Edit: though stoneskin was of great use if a PLD had it cross classed, made Titan HM mountain busters more survivable if timed right haha (the good old days of i55-i70 runs :P)

[Februs]

Cross class skills are fight dependant, Stone Skin is pretty useless for Paladins as enemy attacks will cancel it's cast, but in some situations it's handy. In T13 Bahamut's attacks are somewhat slow but hit hard, there were parts in the fight where the healers would have to focus the party but there would be a big(ish) hit on the MT after, Paladin used to put Stoneskin on them selves for this. But this is a single fight out of many, it's really not something that is the norm.

Again, any Pld who is letting their casts get interrupted (Clemency or Stoneskin) is simply an inexperienced Pld.

The dmg intake has to break a certain threshold for a cast bar to be interrupted (I don't remember the exact amount at the moment). Pld's have a higher dmg threshold than Healers, because they have significantly higher defense. The only things that can interrupt a Pld cast bar are Boss Cleaves, Tank Busters, and some of the party wide AoE moves. For this reason, experienced Pld's can easily plan their casts so that they do not get interrupted. This really is not that difficult to do.

T13 is a fine example, but it is far from the only example. In T9 it could be used to negate the Dmg from Raven's Beak, this was incredibly handy because RB is magic dmg, and only 2 of Pld's CD's can effect magical dmg. Stone Skin was a huge boon. Pld's also used it before each golum phase and before megaflare. If you want a more recent example, in Thordan EX a Pld can self buff between phases. They can get a cast off before / after Sacred cross, before / after meteors, before / after ultimate end, as well as provide additional mitigation during KotR 3. It's also possible to squeeze in a Stone Skin during Dragon's Gaze casts, but you need to know they're coming and start the cast early (which, by the way, is not a problem, because everything in that fight is scripted).

These are only 2 examples out of an entire game of examples. I can go through almost every fight in the game and tell you when and where it is safe and beneficial for a Pld to cast Stone Skin on themselves in which they will not get interrupted and can provide additional mitigation on top of their Defensive CD's. Anyone who says it's not very useful really does not know how to use it correctly on that job.

The only reason it's not the norm to see Pld's using Stone Skin, is because most Pld's either: (a) don't have the experience to know how to use it correctly, or (b) have been convinced that they shouldn't, because of that ridiculous myth that the cast bar will be interrupted 100% of the time.