What if Nocturnal Sect...

[Bebekurenai]

Noct can also crit, and added that the aoe effect is the same potency unlike adlo+succor, yes, it can be superior. Not saying it always is, but it can be. I've crit'ed on the run (literally) a few nocts and I felt like a goddess. The only thing I would change about noct is to be stacked with adlo and a second noct. That, yes, definetly. But noct being trash and adlo being godly? Arguable.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

No way is Noct sect better than a crit Adlo. That's crazy. The instant cast in nice, but a Crit adlo is flat out godly. I'd argue it borders on broken good.

I don't think comparing something with less than 20% chance against something guaranteed is the right way to do it

[AlphaSonic]

It's not about the shields, it's about SCH tools compared to Noc AST.

SCH has better MP management
SCH DPS is better than Noc AST because it has better MP management and the fairy.
SCH has more reliable mitigation tools and easier to use. Supervirus lasts longer and its better than Disable. Sacred Soil is easier to use than Collective Unconscious. Eye for Eye is much more reliable than Bole. Even if Noc AST shields are a bit better than SCH. When Adlo crits it's godly, and it can even be deployed.
SCH Has better emergency cooldowns thanks to Lustrate and Indomitability
Noc AST has better DPS buffs than SCH... Well... SCH has Selene and her haste... So it evens out, and it can be better Selene if AST is unlucky with RNG.
Noc AST has more reliable healing tools than SCH thanks to Helios and Benefic II, well SCH has a fairy and Emergency Tactics (and in 8 man content there are high chances a WHM or Diu AST will take care of the main healing)
Noc AST can restore MP and TP to other allies, true, it can't be denied (if you are lucky)
SCH has the fairy, that gives free healing non dependant of MP and it has it's own abilities. Eos offers AoE Magic Damage mitigation, AoE regen and AoE extra healing potency. Selene offers a Silence, and AoE esuna and an AoE Haste.

You can't compare SCH with Noc AST. SCH is OP, really OP terribly OP.

[LegoTechnic]

The issue I find that sets SCH apart the most is both its versatility and reliability. If you consider the fairies, Eos basically brings three WHM style moves, whereas Selene draws in some AST like buff moves. However the SCH can switch fairies in mid-battle for about 1700 mana, whereas the AST is locked into a Sect once battle begins. This lets the SCH pop regen and shields at the same time if needed, or haste and shields if not. Additionally fairy buffs are RELIABLE, even if they have lengthy cooldowns. And if you compare the versatility of Aetherize mana return to AST's LA/Ewer, you'll note the SCH usually has an easier time of keeping mana up unless they're spamming adloquiums.

AST buffs may be much stronger, but the very RNG nature of their draw is why I prefer the SCH. A SCH's RNG is entirely in hoping for that critical adlo, but if you fail to get that crit your regular shield is still typically good enough to deploy. But if you want that AoE Balance and all you draw are Spires and Spears? Well, it's like the world hates your face and everything you've ever looked at.

[Roxas_Andrade]

I see a lot of points, but with this thread I didn't like to compare AST to the other jobs. (I guess there's a lot of threads doing it already), but with themselves. Like:

What would make me choose Diurnal over Noct?
- 5% Spell Speed buff
- Regen effects
- More reliability, regens stack, more healing power(counting all ticks of Hots), synergy with TD, synergy with both other healers.
I couldn't go wrong with this.

What would make me choose Noct over Diurnal?
-5% healing buff
-Shields
-More instant healing, TD usable for cards only, shields overwrite, fighting SCH for shields
I see that you can't use it all the time and you can't use with every partner.

The big question is, What could make me choose Noct more often?

If I had better cards with Noct, maybe I wouldn't mind playing alongside SCH, shields may not stack, but the better buffs could make up for it without making Diurnal worse...

Do you think it could?

Today we have a majority of Diurnal ASTs on PVE, what could make you guys choose Noct more often?

[Seoulstar]

Sorry but you can't deny that Nocturnal Stance is trash compared to SCH.

I don't think so. If I recall, the AST shields are stronger than a SCH's. Unless that SCH crits.

[LegoTechnic]

Well, there is actually about 0 reason to ever play in Noct if paired with a SCH. If paired with another AST, only one should ever be Noct, and if with a WHM you can be whichever sect you want as Diurnal regens still stack, so it's up to you.

Honestly without being able to stack, Noct shields lose a lot of capability.

[Mimilu]

Noct can also crit, and added that the aoe effect is the same potency unlike adlo+succor, yes, it can be superior. Not saying it always is, but it can be. I've crit'ed on the run (literally) a few nocts and I felt like a goddess. The only thing I would change about noct is to be stacked with adlo and a second noct. That, yes, definetly. But noct being trash and adlo being godly? Arguable.

The problem is that Noct doesn't get the x2 multiplier on its shields crit like SCH's do.
Having said that, Noct will always grant a shield that is x1.3 the amount it healed.

[Kerrigen]

The problem is that Noct doesn't get the x2 multiplier on its shields crit like SCH's do.
Having said that, Noct will always grant a shield that is x1.3 the amount it healed.

I wouldn't call this a problem because this is not something you will be relying on for content that matters. Consistency beats RNG for progression.

I'm not saying that AST has a better mitigation kit than SCH (it does not) because only mentioning Adlo vs. NAB while completely ignoring raidwide mitigation would be silly. In fact Nocturnal Aspected Benefic vs Adloquium is the closest thing we have to balance between both jobs, with both spells having unique avantages and flavor while essentially doing the same thing. I'd like more things like that.

[Ersahi]

snip

The only thing nocturnal handles well is predictable spike damage, like the 3 lasers or 3 balls in a4 where you can insta cast shield on who is going to eat it. Diurnal has internal synergy with stacking regens and regen time extensions. As it stands the problem with nocturnal is that most fights don't have mechanics that it is ideal for handling, while diurnal is much better at handling the types of damage normally encountered (focused tank healing, and aoe regen for the people who don't avoid the puddles/aoe).