Clearing Confusion - MMORPG differentiation

[Holland]

I dont believe anyone tha has played FFXI would say no to the search features the game had. Anyone that has not played XI would'nt say no to any type of search feature implemented as anything would probably be better than what we have now.

This is where the problem is: FFXI players that are asking for similar experiences, sense of accomplishment, hard to get items, "easy mode off", etc. Do not understand the following: An experience like FFXI can not be relived without including all the elements that made it what it was, something I feel I will not find again in any other MMO.

All of FFXI's game mechanics (I stopped playing pre-abbysea so I would not know how it is now) are inextricably woven together with how long it took to get anything. The game was designed that way, so every time you completed, obtained, won, attained anything at all, because of the ridiculous time it took to get, gave an inmense sense of victory, accomplishment and any other type of feeling that finally finsihing CoP, seeing that drop from ground Kings, crafting that item +1 might have given.

The issue I have with people claiming they want to experience the same feeling they had with FFXI is that. I will not claim it is not possible to give sense of accomplishment, but a sense of accomplishment like FFXI's? it is simply not possible to give unless you also bring up the time sink mechanic into the game too, I loved FFXI, but nfortunately for todays gamers this is no longer realistic.

[AsterBarnivere]

See, nothing is wrong with "Being different for the sake of being different" that wasn't FFXIV's problem, it was "Different" but it's "Difference" was implemented poorly..

[Konachibi]

I can understand the arguement. sometimes it does feel like FFXIV was designed to try and be an MMO that didn't play like any other on the market. Nothing in it looks or feels similar to any MMO out there, and because of that lack of familiarity people are used to in MMO's a lot of them left or simply didn't like it. If FFXIV had been the first MMO ever made however, we'd probably be seeing other MMO's building on it's foundations instead of how the 'standard' MMO's of today build off the foundations of Everquest.

That being said though, from an opposite point of view there's been a lot of games that did release with a familiarity and 'clone style' feel to them. Warhammer Online was essentially a clone of WoW but with more advanced -open world quests- and RvR combat, and though it did well for it's first couple of months, it was doomed to failure because of the constant never-ending bugs that Mythic have never fixed.

Age Of Conan also cloned WoW's style but introduced a different battle system that although worked, wasn't enough to save the game, which again was plagued with bugs and problems, as well as many other things people didn't like.

Champions Online cloned City Of Heroes (Though to be fair it was made by the same company), and even though it was an enhanced and graphically superior game, it hasn't done as well as City Of Heroes because a lot of basic functions from CoH that people liked either weren't carried over or were 'enhanced' in a bad way.

So a lot of things that cause an MMO to fail isn't taking earlier models and making them better, sometimes trying to make it better can destroy it. Many players enjoy simplicity in their gameplay, being able to just press a few meager buttons in a repeated loop to take down anything they come across, easy controls to move around with, easy ways to craft, easy ways to view inventory, easy ways to advance your character, easy ways to level up. All the 'successfull' MMO's had these things. People like easy, and those that didn't like easy-mode found niche MMO's such as FFXI which catered more to the challenge and difficult play-style they wanted.

If FFXIV wants to survive it has a simple choice to make, it either -
1: Makes the game easy-mode, which FFXI players and many other people will hate, but will draw in other MMO gamers or...
2: Make the game hard-mode, which FFXI players and others will enjoy, but will deter other MMO gamers.

Once FFXIV's foundation has been laid around patch 1.21, whether it be an FFXI clone, WoW clone or attempting to be it's own unique thing (which is actually one of the things I like most about it at the moment), I think it needs to make this choice before continuing. The choice it makes will decide it's future.

[Reaujien]

If FFXIV wants to survive it has a simple choice to make, it either -
1: Makes the game easy-mode, which FFXI players and many other people will hate, but will draw in other MMO gamers or...
2: Make the game hard-mode, which FFXI players and others will enjoy, but will deter other MMO gamers.

Option #2, {Yes please.}

[Konachibi]

Option #2, {Yes please.}

Indeed, EVE Online went down the route of being hard-mode and it flushes out all the players most people don't want to associate with (The beginner corp players start in is infested with WoW players complaining about how hard the game is XD).

It's the best choice to go with, because although the game may not get millions of players like other MMO's, the tens of thousands of players that play it will thoroughly enjoy it, and it tends to make the game have a better community, as everyone playing it knows that everyone else playing it has been able to climb over the learning-curve and accept the challenge.

[Velhart]

Beautifully written Jen. While I do not want a copy and paste of FFXI, I still want the elements that made FFXI successful. I could really care less if this game ever becomes the top MMO or not, I just want it to be enjoyable. I don't recall needing a ton of players to run a game like this successfully. FFXI was like this, and I still believe FFXI has the strongest community I have ever seen in an MMO. I do believe it was the size of the community. Where not a large amount, but a fair amount, keeping it hardcore kept in the dedicated players and kept out the players you don't want to associate with.

I already see this happening in FFXIV, maybe because a lot of players are FFXI vets. Of course you will see your run of the mill idiot once in a while, all MMO's have it. But, due to the hardcore nature of FFXI, it forced people to get good at what they were doing, and knew the only way to get anywhere was to behave and focus on team work. Small, but a fair amount of people that rely heavily on party play does this, and that is the community I enjoy. I can tell you, trolling in the game wouldn't get you far, reputations can die quickly in these type of games.

This is one of the various reasons I want FFXI's hardcore aspect back. I don't want it to the point I am up all night and morning going through claim windows, or events that take hours to get done. I want that casual gameplay they promised, but in a hardcore aspect. Make it convenient, but make it hard. Make me pull my hair out every time a boss doesn't drop my item. I want that feeling of accomplishment, I want to feel like my time has been rewarded.

FFXI was able to keep all of it's content fresh because it never raised the cap by 75. It was a smart move, before they decided to raise the cap and make 7-8 years worth of content obsolete. Not raising level caps and making a wide variety of useful gear in many areas kept the game up and running and making people come back for more and more. I want FFXIV to find it's niche level and keep it there. I want to do content today I see myself still doing 4-5 years down the road. I want to see the world expand and not any previous lands forgotten, this is something I really hate in MMO's. I loved Burning Crusade in WoW, but raising the level cap, no one ever goes there anymore unless they want an achievement. It is sad really. FFXI's concept, which debatable, I believe was the best way to distribute content in an MMO.

We all agree that FFXIV was in a horrible and uncompleted state when first released. With it's horrible interface, laggy and unbalanced battle system, no content, and so on. With each new patch however, I see it transforming into FFXI's concepts, which is how it should have been to begin with. People need to remember that even if the interface and battle system turn into FFXI, we keep forgetting that we all loved FFXI. While you can type on here that you don't want FFXI in FFXIV, you are all thinking in your heads that you do. You want what FFXI gave you in this game, and when FFXIV didn't deliver that to you, your high expectations kicked you in the ass. So please don't say you want something different, because in reality, you would take the same damn thing over what FFXIV initially was going to be, a game that you could only enjoy ever 48 hours and punished you for liking the game too much.

Like I said, I don't exactly want copy and paste, but I want FFXI's success, I want FFXI's elements, I want what kept me going for 8+ years. Maybe this is just me, but I just want the same damn thing with a new world and storyline. Something fresh with familiarity.

That is what I want.

[AsterBarnivere]

Yea, what the hume said.

like, I totally agree

[Reaujien]

Like I said, I don't exactly want copy and paste, but I want FFXI's success, I want FFXI's elements, I want what kept me going for 8+ years. Maybe this is just me, but I just want the same damn thing with a new world and storyline. Something fresh with familiarity.

(emphasis added)

You read my mind.

[quantumsaint]

I didn't play EQ or EQ2, but I often wonder if they had this same problem.

Person coming from EQ to EQ2: Hey, is there any way we can [insert something from EQ that EQ2 may have been lacking]

EQ2 player: WTF?! WHY WOULD YOU ASK FOR THAT? GO BACK TO EQ IF YOU LOVE IT SO MUCH NOOOOB!

[Zorvan]

Indeed, EVE Online went down the route of being hard-mode and it flushes out all the players most people don't want to associate with (The beginner corp players start in is infested with WoW players complaining about how hard the game is XD).

It's the best choice to go with, because although the game may not get millions of players like other MMO's, the tens of thousands of players that play it will thoroughly enjoy it, and it tends to make the game have a better community, as everyone playing it knows that everyone else playing it has been able to climb over the learning-curve and accept the challenge.

Sorry, ain't gonna happen. If they wanted to go the "hardcore" route, they needed to do it from the beginning.

They've lost millions on this game already and they lose money every day that it's in development with no sub fees coming in. They took a big club to the face due to Tanaka's screwing around and Wada's incompetence.

Investors want their money, S-E corporate wants its money. Your niche crowd of "hardcore" players ain't gonna provide that money.