Thordan's 12 Knights are not Primals

[whiskeybravo]

Can we say that the Opressors, Living Liquid and the Manipulator were not part of Alexander?

We can't say that they're not "part" of Alexander, but again they specifically asked "how many primals can you fight in total?". We haven't fought any direct incarnation of Alexander, only his minions, much the same as we had to go through 12 turns of the coil before being able to fight against an incarnation of Bahamut. If they had asked this question in say, second coil days, would Bahamut be included?

I think it's sort of a silly trick question.

[FunkyBunch]

Isn't Diabolos a Primal?

[CyrilLucifer]

Isn't Diabolos a Primal?

I earlier FFs yes, he'd be considered the primal equivalent. In XIV he's just voidsent.

[Belhi]

We have been fighting through the middle of Alexander's body so its quite different to Coils. Any of the constructs we fought could count as part of Alexanders 'immune system'. Plus there is the quarantine chamber where the building itself is actually what kills you.

[Haprimac]

So, when do I get my super-Warrior of Light Primal transformation?

You get it in the opening cinematic where you don your fancy artifact job gear and the blade of light. ;D

... And then you wake up. :l Oh well.

[Kaiser-Ace]

I earlier FFs yes, he'd be considered the primal equivalent. In XIV he's just voidsent.

A "King Amungst Voidsent" to quote the Quest dialog.

So he is apparently exceptionally powerful even by his own kind's standards.

[Shurrikhan]

Ohoho, Bayohne and Yoshi-P are playing hardball now, eh?

Here's hoping that means they also know whether Thordan was granted the Echo (a la the Sahagin Elder) to do become a primal and whether or not it was Elidibus' doing (as his side of this "project primal" thing he and Lahabrea were up to for 5 patches). <Teleports off to Twitter to try his luck>

If so, I'd imagine Lahabrea was pretty pissed about Elidibus not telling him about that particular extension of said project. Right up until it disintegrated him...

[Anonymoose]

I'd imagine Lahabrea was pretty pissed about Elidibus not telling him about that particular extension of said project.

The way I've been interpreting things thus far, if Thordan was granted the Echo, it'd have been impossible for Lahabrea not to have known. Both the Sahagin Elder and Minfilia conclude that the former awakening to the Echo was somehow via Elidibus' intervention (2.2). When the Ascians meet to discuss Ramuh's demise and his troubling consent to the Warrior of Light's path, Lahabrea is the one to draw up the next plan: nurture the gifted, give rise to a new god (2.3). Suddenly, a girl with the Echo becomes the center of a heretic sect that gives rise to a new primal, Shiva, which Nabriales monitors under Lahabrea's orders to ensure that man and god are successfully merged (2.4).

The next thing you know, Lahabrea and Eldibius are standing together behind Thordan's throne, like every movement they've made since the Warrior of Light defeated Ultima was building up to merging the Archbishop - already desperate to win one war and sure to start others if he won - with such power. Logically, that means Lahabrea had to have known that to merge man with god they'd need the Echo, and that Elidibus was capable of giving it to him. (Unless I've interpreted anything wrong.)

I think Lahabrea was blinded by arrogance, given that everything had gone well for him since Ultima. I think he expected that Thordan would take out the Warrior of Light, and then keep having him and Elidibus over for tea while they helped him take out the dragons, the primals, the Garleans, and ever onward. And he was right, aside from the part where the next stop after the Warrior of Light was him.

[KarstenS]

Then after you survive Ultimate End? He starts flailing about hopelessly

This point let a question open.

Yoshida stated that story version of the Thordan fight got heavily changed from what was they had originally planned.

In the mistrel ballad version, its the opposite at this point. After Ultimate End he gets more powerfull than before.

[Frederick22]

This point let a question open.

Yoshida stated that story version of the Thordan fight got heavily changed from what was they had originally planned.

In the mistrel ballad version, its the opposite at this point. After Ultimate End he gets more powerfull than before.

But what is how the mistrel works. He likes to exagerate the original stories, making then more epical. Thats the point.