The arrogance of some people

[hagare]

Out of curiosity, why are we talking about Savage in this healer DPS discussion? Anyone who is doing Savage in a static has healers who DPS, that isn't really the question up for debate. I thought it was people found in Duty Finder - so places like Void Ark, RavEX, Expert Roulette etc?

you know how it is with these topics xD
one thing leads to another and the topic gets derailed

[Alahra]

Out of curiosity, why are we talking about Savage in this healer DPS discussion? Anyone who is doing Savage in a static has healers who DPS, that isn't really the question up for debate. I thought it was people found in Duty Finder - so places like Void Ark, RavEX, Expert Roulette etc?

Tangent due to people bringing up Yoshi's (somewhat out of context) quote about healer DPS not being required. It's all intertwined anyway, since the necessities of Savage naturally affect people's expectations for less challenging content.

[Judge_Xero]

Out of curiosity, why are we talking about Savage in this healer DPS discussion? Anyone who is doing Savage in a static has healers who DPS, that isn't really the question up for debate. I thought it was people found in Duty Finder - so places like Void Ark, RavEX, Expert Roulette etc?

I think it's because there are many Raid groups with healers who don't DPS, or don't DPS to the extent that they should. I would not be surprised if there were many healers lurking this very thread because they would like to justify their choice not to DPS even in Raid Tier Content.

I believe it's that very reason that A3S broke so many statics and for the animosity in DF for healers that don't DPS. Because of how Alex was tuned there were so many DPS that were trying to push every ounce of DPS from their class for even just a 20 DPS gain, and as others have noted, it would be easier for a Healer to output a measly 200 DPS than for each of 4 DPS to push an additional 50 DPS when at the higher tier of their class.

So basically those who have cleared Alex have healers that DPS where those that don't are probably stuck on A3S, which causes this push for the Healer Meta of DPSing all over the game much more than it was for previous endgame with lower DPS checks.

It's all related in some manner as can be seen by how hard the idea is being pushed this Raid Tier. Where as before it was only the difference between those who clear content and those who sell it, now it's the different between those who clear content and those who don't.

[KarstenS]

I'm not sure what "just to give you a little view..." from a struggling team adds.

Look a little bit closer what I exactly did quote and what I did mark bold. Your post did miss the point entirely.

Its a quite easy answer when you add 1 and 1: There is always room for improvement on the side of DPS players. To many teams got too comfortable to use healer DPS instead of improving the DPS on the side of the damage dealers. When the devs say they have calculated the fight without healer DPS at a specified iLvl, than it is possible to do this without healer DPS at this iLvl. Just look at the bunch of theards in this forum discussing about healer DPS.

Its not about "which means that sources of DPS they don't normally consider are required for Savage". Its about to recognice: DDs are not performing that good as they think.

[Alahra]

I think it's because there are many Raid groups with healers who don't DPS, or don't DPS to the extent that they should. I would not be surprised if there were many healers lurking this very thread because they would like to justify their choice not to DPS even in Raid Tier Content.

There are—many of them raided in ARR when healer DPS wasn't really required/expected to the degree that it is now. Healer DPS meant faster progression back then, but gearing up DPS members enough with tomestone weapons and the like was often enough to clear the content in a more relaxed way. Current Savage is a whole 'nother ballgame, though, and it's not particularly surprising to me that there are raid healers who don't like (or perhaps can't focus enough—I fall into this latter category myself, being able to DPS fine in 4-mans but not having the head to do so in 8-mans) to DPS in raids who are dissatisfied with the current difficulty and requirements of Savage.

Its not about "which means that sources of DPS they don't normally consider are required for Savage". Its about to recognice: DDs are not performing that good as they think.

You're largely missing the context and point of my post, which was specifically in regard to players claiming that because Yoshi said they don't tune with healer DPS in mind that it must be the case that healer DPS is never needed for Savage.

DPS checks in Savage are tight even for groups with DPS that play at high levels. 7-man clear teams for AS3 are undoubtedly using i210 weapons and gear, much of which is only available if you've beaten AS3, so asking DPS to perform to those levels without having beaten AS3 is silly. As a result, the DPS has to come from somewhere else: STR-tanks and healers.

[Iagainsti]

Okay buddy. You can take 45 minutes to finish a dungeon to get your tomes, while I run the dungeon twice and get double the tome/time spent ratio.

...45 minutes? If the DPS are halfway decent a dungeon doesn't take more then 20.

It doesn't take 45 minutes to run a dungeon, if it does there more wrong with the group then a healer not wanting to dps. Even with below average dps should be able to get it done in 30 minutes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

[Kaurie]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

Haha so true.

Though... Back in August/September, when I'd run expert roulette for Fractals/Neverreap, i quickly found out that I'd be better going with my SMN in a 10 min queue than tank or healer in an instant queue. I'm not being hyperbolic here.

Nearly every run of my SCH/PLD would take 35-45 minutes (and I'd be DPSing with my SCH :|). Then I'd pop on my SMN and enjoy a 14 minute run.

While I think a good healer will DPS, it really does matter more if your actual DPS are competent or not.

[Purrfectstorm]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

It feels like you're calling "20 min to finish a dungeon" hyperbole. If that's what you think, I don't want to play with you.

[RickXRolled]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole

The reason I said 45 mins was because sometimes when I do solo quee expert as healer, both dps and the tank are so incompetent that even WITH my dps the dungeon takes 45 minutes. If I was a heal onry healer, that would have been even longer.

I judge and hate bad play in general, but this topic is about healer dps.

[Iagainsti]

It feels like you're calling "20 min to finish a dungeon" hyperbole. If that's what you think, I don't want to play with you.

Well my advice is don't read with your feelings. I can't help but laugh that he was making a hyperbolic statement to make a point, and the conversation gets derailed by ppl flaming him for his choice of wording and time xD.

/welcome to the forums

P.s- don't worry, I wouldn't offer you a chance to play with me in the first place #redundancy ;D