FFXIV is in a Prime Position to Make Some Drastic Changes

[Nektulos-Tuor]

This game barely has any competition. In fact I don't think I see any in this game lol.

[BlatantPyre]

This game barely has any competition. In fact I don't think I see any in this game lol.

Yup. That was Pride's point originally. We need a bit more. There's technically some in GS (TT and LoVM), but it's really what I'd call "novelty" competition. Fun stuff, if you don't mind hanging out in the closet it's stored in.

[BlatantPyre]

RDM could work <...> Jack of all trades, yes - but MASTER OF NONE <...> The thing that makes it generally unworkable, in my mind, is not a question of what abilities it has <...> it's a question of queues.

What would a RDM queue as? Healer? <...> Tank? <...> DPS?

Vertical progression is a good thing. Horizontal, not so much. <and then everything else he said that was spot on>

You read my mind, man.

The biggest problem I noticed too was if they introduced a job that wasn't locked into the role system, how would the queue work as it is now? I thought breaking the vertical progression would begin to help address it, but I've since changed my mind. I had a thought about having it queue untethered to any specific role, then as the roles were gradually filled it would close the gap...i don't know now though, maybe. It would always either be tank or heals, and honestly I didn't really see RDM as a tank, more in line with DRG (access to better armor than other dps) but with the capacity to be a healer. I ALSO thought about it having some Mystic Knight mechanics...you know, attributing BLM spells into a rune blade, allowing for elemental damage on top of harder hits...and give me chain spell...

Anyway, I'm excited for it nonetheless, I was just pondering how it would fit in.

[Shurrikhan]

The biggest problem I noticed too was if they introduced a job that wasn't locked into the role system, how would the queue work as it is now? I thought breaking the vertical progression would begin to help address it, but I've since changed my mind. I had a thought about having it queue untethered to any specific role, then as the roles were gradually filled it would close the gap...i don't know now though, maybe. It would always either be tank or heals, and honestly I didn't really see RDM as a tank, more in line with DRG (access to better armor than other dps) but with the capacity to be a healer. I ALSO thought about it having some Mystic Knight mechanics...you know, attributing BLM spells into a rune blade, allowing for elemental damage on top of harder hits...and give me chain spell...

Anyway, I'm excited for it nonetheless, I was just pondering how it would fit in.

Yeah, this is what gets me, too, about RDM, though I'm not sure it'd be such a big deal insofar as how it would queue--more, that it would have to pick one role to queue as, and that most parties would have to hinge its use on a particular use rather than making the best use of all three combined roles. Ideally, I'd want it to be something outside the role system, but in reality it's more likely going to be able to qualify for only one role at a time, likely gearing for healer, tank, or dps, and queueing accordingly. That said, even without gearing for the particular role, it could easily just pick a role in the meaning not of limited capability (after all, our tanks and healers can both DPS significantly enough) but of intention to fulfilling its obligations (keeping the party alive when healing, holding aggro as necessary when tanking), noting that whatever else they might contribute they can and most likely will be kicked if they do not perform the role they signed on as, just like any bad role-locked tank, healer, or dps.

[RiceisNice]

The biggest problem I noticed too was if they introduced a job that wasn't locked into the role system....

There's no unwritten rule that RDM has to be a support, or jack-of-all, though. Everyone dork knight as a dps job, but it seems to fit the tanking role jsut fine, provided they have been given the tools for such. FFXIV has done pretty well as far as taking concepts from the FF series and molding it into something that works in an MMO setting, BLMwith the astral/umbral mechanic for example. It clearly doesnt play as a traditional FF blackmage, but at hte same time draws from it's concept of having a wide pletioria of elemental spells and make it work without the elemental wheel (which is typically an extremely limiting factor in any MMO game)

[Shurrikhan]

There's no unwritten rule that RDM has to be a support, or jack-of-all, though. Everyone dork knight as a dps job, but it seems to fit the tanking role just fine, provided they have been given the tools for such. FFXIV has done pretty well as far as taking concepts from the FF series and molding it into something that works in an MMO setting, BLM with the astral/umbral mechanic for example. It clearly doesnt play as a traditional FF blackmage, but at the same time draws from it's concept of having a wide plethora of elemental spells and make it work without the elemental wheel (which is typically an extremely limiting factor in any MMO game)

I guess what's being mused about then isn't so much a class that has things in common with the RDM, but the iconic hybrid niche that RDM has happened to fill.

We basically can get another class with weapon enchants, mixed melee and spell-casting, and maybe even a single-target Refresh, any day. My tank can wear a shiny red coat and hat. Monks have the Red Thief set which looks pretty close... But a real hybrid, that's the real rarity that I think a lot of people would like to see pulled off, though preferably with one the best dressed and most iconic jobs to meet that description.

[Shyle]

A bit off topic, but I think that something like the following could give players something to do in between content patches:

So lately I've been searching for another MMO to dive into (or return to in most cases) since XIV right now has stagnated for me (and Blade and Soul isn't out for 2 weeks and Black Desert CBT2 hasn't been announced). I'm still subbed and still log in once in a while to see if my friends are on (they rarely are, as they're waiting for something new to happen as well) and I started looking at WoW again. It's been *years* since I last played (I officially stopped WoW when Firelands was released, I later bought the expansions up to Warlords, but never really played them).And I was talking with an old buddy of mine who used to be in the same guild as me and we started to reminisce about how Wow had the achievements for the Heroic dungeons where after you completed various challenges you got a mount. I remember it being *really* fun to go back and do them for the mount and achievements. Granted, WoW's dungeons (at least when I played) were a lot more fun than XIV's (in most cases). But I think that SE could definitely make the achievements worth something more, I know there's a few achievements (200 primal kills for class mounts, but that's just another grind) that give rewards, but I'm talking about actual *challenges* in the dungeons. Maybe Time challenges or something.
I just remember having lots of fun doing odd things like that in WoW that isn't available in XIV (or other MMO's to be honest).

[Zojha]

Competition in its purest form is not only healthy, it is *essential* to life.

Competition in its purest form is survival of the fittest.

It is a sad fact resulting from the scarcity of ressources on our planet. It does rely on loss because the sole purpose of competition is to decide who eats and who has to go hungry. Who lives and who dies. Who gets the title and who doesn't. Who becomes rich and who becomes poor. Who wins and who loses.

If everyone can win, everyone can eat and everyone can live, there is no need for competition and nobody sane engages in such. I'm most certain you too do not compete over your food, health or anything that matters if you don't have to. Feel free to correct me if you actually are. I, for one, don't know a single person who would. Everyone I know would rather that everyone can go home sated and happy, if somehow possible.

[Alahra]

There's no unwritten rule that RDM has to be a support, or jack-of-all, though.

Indeed--honestly, RDM's identity isn't particularly concrete across the various FF titles. While it always has melee, black magic, and white magic, there have only been a couple of the titles where it's actually been notably good at all three things at once. In terms of hitting all three of those bases, I suspect tank is actually the easiest fit for FFXIV's current paradigm (black magic for ranged/AoE threat stuff, white magic for self-heals/defensive cooldowns [like Phalanx/Stoneskin/Blink from FFXI], and then tanks are naturally in melee). But they could just as easily minimize the melee aspect, too, and make it a healer, since they already have both offensive and defensive magic (healer doesn't even necessarily preclude melee, but given their penchant for raid mechanics that make healers stay away from the group, that might get kind of messy).

What I don't see RDM being is a straight DPS, though (unless perhaps they do some sort of split-job thing like SMN/SCH--but that's highly unlikely).

[Shyle]

What I don't see RDM being is a straight DPS, though (unless perhaps they do some sort of split-job thing like SMN/SCH--but that's highly unlikely).

Could be a melee dps/support (using spells like enfire etc to not only buff their own weapon but the melee party members as well). Basically using TP and MP skills for dps with some support added?