Why are we forcing Jack of All Trade jobs into DPS/Tank/Healer?

[Ashkendor]

1.0 didn't have the trinity. It was make up your own class till jobs were release. Its like this for ease of duty finder, duo is similar you got dps then 3 role tank healer support. Except in dcuo everyone starts out as a dps then unlock role stance they can freely switch to. As much I as I prefer ff11 more free form, I like the way the game is set up as is

1.0 was basically a completely different game with the same name. Not to mention it was basically an utter failure.

[Lambdafish]

no, it really doesn't. in all other games every one takes damage.

i'm not against the trinity but tanks do not exist because it makes sense. hate/enmity is a very artificial construct that only exist in games that want tanks to exist.

what makes sense is you put your close ranged combatants in front of your long ranged combatants and your close ranged people makes it difficult for the enemy to get to the long ranged people. that's how games like Final Fantasy Tactics works, that's how PVP works.

Sorry, I'll reiterate, it makes sense from the core of this game, and changing that would mean a fundemental rework of the entire combat system resulting in a completely different game (think 1.0 > 2.0 in terms of scale). Going back on topic, adding support to this would require a significant rework of how parties are made, and I just don't think the game is designed to allow for that kind of change.

[Mycow8me]

In before rdm threads. We are still getting bard threads years later cause of it. I can't wait to see the response RDM receives yet alone where they position it in the "trinity".

[Kosmos992k]

Personally, I like having support skills spread through the jobs, it gives each role better utility without detracting from their core aspects. Shoe-horning a support job into the game would be problematic IMHO. Not to mention, any support job would essentially be a poor man's DPS with support capability. They have to have sufficient DPS to make it through the solo aspects of the game, but for their support skills to be role defining, you're either stripping skills from other jobs, or making the ones you give the support role a bit OP to differentiate them from what already exists. What you end up with is a slightly below par DPS with OP support. I could see that becoming a mandatory role in raids, which is something that SE has tried to avoid.

[Einheri]

. What you end up with is a slightly below par DPS with OP support. I could see that becoming a mandatory role in raids, which is something that SE has tried to avoid.

and after a certain point a class that no one wants because they could just bring another dps. See Rift.

my guestimation; Red mages will be enhancement shaman like melee bards. They will offer support as there white magic and burst as there black magic and most there dps will come from physical. Jack of all trades. Oh and they will use dex.

[Lambdafish]

I can't wait to see the response RDM receives yet alone where they position it in the "trinity".

I've always seen RDM as a kind of cross between a BRD and SMN but on a melee, where they are primarily a DPS with DoTs and debuffs (as well as a melee dps that uses int), but with support type spells as well, they fit in the trinity just fine.

[Critical-Limit]

Yes give them shields.

You missed the point...

Imagine ffxiv came out and every job was basically War PLD and DRK never existed. DPS instead got a defense buff and they have their natural defense tools like fists of earth, ect ect.

And the object of the game was for these dPS to hold off healers.

Someone wants to play a job where they are the only ones taking damage and managing hate on everything. Makes a thread like this and introduces the "tank" concept.

To make it you'd have to make up reasons for tanks to be In the game. Make dPS defense weaker, make monsters hit harder because now tanks will have more cool downs. Saying a support job can't be implemented is like saying tank never should've been implemented because it needs a little changing to make it work.

[Warlyx]

I've always seen RDM as a kind of cross between a BRD and SMN but on a melee, where they are primarily a DPS with DoTs and debuffs (as well as a melee dps that uses int), but with support type spells as well, they fit in the trinity just fine.

I am the red mage, I can do it all,
Both kinds of magic and swordplay too, y'all!
So many skills that it takes to be a hero
A jack of all trades but the master of zero
What am I great at? Nothin' I'm told, ya see I always get the bronze but never the gold
Well some day soon I hope to be best,
Just for a moment better than the rest!

Oh ho... my life is a tragic paradox, I said
Oh ho... I feel like a circle in a squarer box
Why am I afraid to choose a scepter or a blade?
I could focus on one, and son, I'd have it made
Until that day I'm just a man on a quest, but mark my words I'm gonna be the best!



love that song ^^

[SendohJin]

Sorry, I'll reiterate ... and I just don't think the game is designed to allow for that kind of change.

i agree with that.

Imagine ffxiv came out and every job was basically War PLD and DRK never existed.

DRK didn't exist and 2.0 WAR is very different from the WAR we have now. so basically imagine 2.0 without PLD, it's actually really easy.

To make it you'd have to make up reasons for tanks to be In the game.

this is not true. tanks being in the game makes it easier for everyone else. not having tanks makes it harder to heal. not having tanks makes it harder to melee because when the mob is chasing after the healer/ranged DPS, the melee are chasing after the mob.

there are pre-built reasons as to why tanks exist. unless you want the argument to be every melee should be a tank, which is an okay argument. that MNK/DRG are not tanks and WAR/DRK are tanks is pretty arbitrary.

i can conceptually redesign MNK to be a tank in like an hour. DRG is a little more complicated but basically you can turn them into Jump tanks to dodge tankbusters and stuff.

the Support Role doesn't automatically make other roles function easier, especially in 4 man content. that's the biggest problem with a Support role, it doesn't fit into 4 man groups without some complicated scaling.

[Mycow8me]

I've always seen RDM as a kind of cross between a BRD and SMN but on a melee, where they are primarily a DPS with DoTs and debuffs (as well as a melee dps that uses int), but with support type spells as well, they fit in the trinity just fine.

The problem is that your not the only person who has a way of seeing rdm and there are people who see rdm as capable of doing more than just strictly DPS. Anyone who played ffxi as RDM is probably going to be as devastated with it when its released as I am with summoner in this game compared to ffxi.

Yeah yeah, I know... This isn't ffxi so deal with it.jpg ... And I will, by just not playing it most likely.