Why are we forcing Jack of All Trade jobs into DPS/Tank/Healer?

[m3eansean]

Entire game is based on the trinity. They still cant figure out how to make the duty finder work while you have a chocobo out. Their coding/scripting is founded on the setup from 1.0 days still, meaning the inclusion of a "support" class will be nigh impossible without tweaking every other aspect of the game engine.

In short, don't count on it. All future jobs will be one of the trinity.

[Ravnika]

Entire game is based on the trinity. They still cant figure out how to make the duty finder work while you have a chocobo out. Their coding/scripting is founded on the setup from 1.0 days still, meaning the inclusion of a "support" class will be nigh impossible without tweaking every other aspect of the game engine.

In short, don't count on it. All future jobs will be one of the trinity.

In that case.

DNC TANK PLEASE. X3

[Critical-Limit]

. Or, bring a BRD to NiTro+Soul Voice songs for DPS jobs then afk for the rest of the fight. COR was interesting in that it was the DPS version of an AST in that it had 'Cards' except they were rolls (could have 2 up at a time though and they were always AoE), but they were a ranged DPS class (though not as raw strength DPS as Ranger was, since the added buffs to the party supplemented their own DPS).

Trust me, if you enjoy getting a buff from someone else, you're gonna realize when you don't have it. And if you don't have it, you're going to know for how long you don't have it.


You can calculate how much their DPS is adding to raid if you REALLY need to, by fighting a dummy w/o them, then fighting one with them as a raid. If you tank is dying because monsters hit harder and faster, as designed to give something support needs to keep up, and he has cool down dropped, and whm is cure bombing but he's still dropping, people are gonna pay attention to if slow and paralyze are kept up. People are going to realize when the stone armor move comes on that they're doing 0 damage and that it needs to be dispelled.

It's pretty easy to tell honestly. The DPS will know if they're getting their buffs, the Healer will know if they're getting their buffs from you, the tank will know if you're not debuffing the mob.



You can't use XI as an example in XIV in this context. The way GCD and oGCD work in this game won't allow for a XI style of play. And you're the one here restricting RDM to just chainspell stun. That doesn't have to happen in this game. people aren't going to have BRD sitting there just singing a song in place for an hour. they're still buffing themselves, singing, shooting arrows, dodging.

A RDM in this fashion isn't much different from the other 3 roles in how much they'll have to DO.

Let's compare MNK to RDM

MNK has to keep up Demolish/Dragon Kick/Touch of Death (Occasional Fracture) as DoTs.

RDM would do something like this but in Debuff, Slow/Paralyze/Dispel


and just like you keep up Dot's, support classes will have to keep up buffs on party members as well.

Maintain a combo or 2, for two different paths they wish to take. One combo could lead to a really good buff that will randomly reset someone's oGCD. or something. (Might be OP just an example), the other will unlock Dia for you to place on the boss.

ECT ECT.

DRK was just a DPS with Stun back in XI days. look at what it became here and out of it's element people are use to. Don't be close minded because XI rubbed you the wrong way with support jobs.

Entire game is based on the trinity. They still cant figure out how to make the duty finder work while you have a chocobo out. Their coding/scripting is founded on the setup from 1.0 days still, meaning the inclusion of a "support" class will be nigh impossible without tweaking every other aspect of the game engine.

In short, don't count on it. All future jobs will be one of the trinity.

Every other aspect of the game engine?

Everything presented so far isn't taxing at all on changing anything besides how old content might handle it which has been discussed already. I think this is positive change for the game for all jobs, in terms of teamwork, and making the existing jobs more diverse, and less (spam this rotation w/o any adaptation)

I'm obviously not acting like this is a HIGH possibility, but i'm not gonna doom gloom the possibility either. If enough people think this to be a good idea, I'd like it to atleast be in the back of the development teams minds.

The earlier the better also imo.

[Warlyx]

supports jobs are a MUST HAVE or USELESS there is no in btw when it comes to mmorpgs endgame...

if u balance around 2 tanks , 2 heals 3 dps 1 support , the supports needs to bring enough support that its better than bringing another dps instead....so u are going to be forced to have 1..

if the support doesnt bring enough to the table is uslesss and having 1 is detrimential to any setup...aka why exist in the 1 place?

and u have to take into account how many ppl are interested in playing that role... lets see history and actual mmorpgs with full support.... almost no1 (burnout , u are the last one to get gear for, why give the "weapon" to support when u can give it to dps ? , and even getting new gear isnt going to make u feel more powerfull u will buff better....)

in FFXIV there is no sets of gear , no gear would boost buffs/debuffs , lets say Paralyze , with more MND will have more % to proc? so getting nerfed every other patch? , same goes for Slow... or buffs that add more attack or speed attack (See Selene....)

adding support is only adding problems to a game that already have balance issues for endgame content....

[m3eansean]

In the live letter either right as 3.0 hit, or right before it did when they introduced the new job skills, I believe they were outright asked when/if a support category will be added to the game.

They more or less said no, not for a long time at least, as they are very concerned about it making the DF too long to queue for, by splitting the dps into support and dps. Also there were other developer interviews, posted in the forums at the time, which were given in japanese, that stated it is complicated to change the base scripting the duty finder works from (going back to 1.0 days).

Pragmatically, you will not see the beloved classes from the past falling into any other category other than that of the trinity.

[Kazrah]

Actually it would make more sense to make internal identifiers rather than an official in-game support role for character jobs as either "support-level" or "assault-level" depending on what sort of buffs it brings to a group. That way, any new group content can be designed around how much damage groups do when they have a certain number of jobs classified as "support-level" based on what sort of content it is. This could also remedy the issue of representation of various jobs in some content (mostly looking at savage for that).

The other thing too is that red mage is coming. It's one of the most demanded jobs by the playerbase, and even Yoshi has openly mentioned it wanting it in the game. Maybe making that identifier for it as a support-level job would provide that level of wiggle room for it to somewhat show itself off as the iconic hybrid.

[Azazua_azura]

Entire game is based on the trinity. They still cant figure out how to make the duty finder work while you have a chocobo out. Their coding/scripting is founded on the setup from 1.0 days still, meaning the inclusion of a "support" class will be nigh impossible without tweaking every other aspect of the game engine.

In short, don't count on it. All future jobs will be one of the trinity.

1.0 didn't have the trinity. It was make up your own class till jobs were release. Its like this for ease of duty finder, duo is similar you got dps then 3 role tank healer support. Except in dcuo everyone starts out as a dps then unlock role stance they can freely switch to. As much I as I prefer ff11 more free form, I like the way the game is set up as is

[Morbid]

Outside of DPS.. Support has always been my go to..

Like Archon in Rift PvP

[Lambdafish]

I think that DPS support is the wrong way to go about it and I think that support should be focused in the healer slot (as an off healer), and I think that AST fills that slot nicely.

I'd also like PLD to properly be reworked into a support tank, if they are adamant on not going down the DPS route, that would give the job some identity that it currently lacks.

The problem with support jobs, especially in DF is that their entire DPS strategy relies on other people, which is why the skills are scattered to only a few per job. If your contribution to DPS is buffing an ice mage or a ruin SMN, then that's doubly as bad because they are contributing to your DPS loss.

[Kurogaea]

Brilliance

I want this, great idea. May be deviating away from the 4 party thing but don't care because it'd be awesome. It should happen and I hope the devs take a look at this idea and heavily consider it.