I got to give you people credit.

[Februs]

This is probably going to upset some die-hard Dps players, but I don't often give any credit to Dps players, because most of them don't deserve it. I'm willing to give credit when credit is due, and when I run across solid Dps I will let them know they are doing a good job and that I appreciate it. However, I'm sad to say that this is extremely rare.

In dungeons I barely ever get a Dps team that can turn out "good" dps. Most Dps I run into are outright slow (sometimes slower than the tank). Worse yet, a lot of them seem to go out of their way to make things harder on the healers or tanks by standing in AoE's that they could have easily dodged (just in case the healer was sleeping, right?) or by pulling additional mobs. This would be fine if they can actually kill them at an acceptable speed instead of a turtles pace, but most Dps can't manage that and end up wasting Tank CD's and healer Mp.

Hard content is even worse. Most wipes should be from boss mechanics. Instead, they are widely caused by either (1) Dps standing in so much stupid that they die and the healers have to waste time and mana raising them, or (2) not meeting Dps checks and wiping the whole group. Given that Dps rotations are all well documented and on a pretty tight leash (sometimes right down to the second for which buffs should be applied at what times), this is mind blowing.

They don't have to worry about enmity. They don't have to worry about anyone's Hp/Status bars but their own. They don't have to worry about positioning other than their own, and most of the Dps related mech fall to a simple combination of either a) kill that, or b) dodge that... yet they can't follow a scripted rotation and not stand in AoE's at the same time...If that's not laziness than it's being a straight up Troll, which is worse.

Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone (least of all people on the forums). I've met some pretty outstanding Dps out there who really know their stuff, and when they reach their skill ceiling it's a beautiful thing. It's just that the bad players FAR outweigh the good ones. I suppose that's the same for any job, really, but given that Dps typically have a singular focus (which is themselves), it's less understandable that they die so often or fail to live up to even half of their potential.

[vp_cmc]

but given that Dps typically have a singular focus (which is themselves), it's less understandable that they die so often or fail to live up to even half of their potential.

This part is easy. If they play caster jobs (there are 7 caster jobs in this game), when you are targeted by aoe, you must decide, do you have enough time to finish cast or not. Sometimes you are wrong with that decision. Healers can heal earlier, so they can be ready to move during mechanics, but dps should dps as much as possible. Monks probably try to make one more punch before running away to keep they GL3 buff. Nin and drg - just to maximize their uptime.

[Atrious]

This is probably going to upset some die-hard Dps players, but I don't often give any credit to Dps players, because most of them don't deserve it. I'm willing to give credit when credit is due, and when I run across solid Dps I will let them know they are doing a good job and that I appreciate it. However, I'm sad to say that this is extremely rare.

SNIP

And we can say the same about tanks and healers. We all have to deal with it lol. You guys aren't as good as you think

[FunkyBunch]

And we can say the same about tanks and healers. We all have to deal with it lol. You guys aren't as good as you think

^^ This, but since there are so few of them we always treat them nicely. Even when they're terrible and you're on minute 30 of the arboretum =/

[RiisWolf]

This is probably going to upset some die-hard Dps players, but I don't often give any credit to Dps players, because most of them don't deserve it. I'm willing to give credit when credit is due, and when I run across solid Dps I will let them know they are doing a good job and that I appreciate it. However, I'm sad to say that this is extremely rare.
. . . snip

Most of my commendations as DPS were either by being a great guide/help, making excellent use of my supportive/healing abilities and evasion, using LB as soon as possible more than once(never vs last boss if I'm not melee, unless melee is dead), and/or in rarer occasions dealing excellent damage. Sometimes I get the feeling a good bunch of them are because the others didn't do so well.

I'd commend DPS for the same but I'd be lucky to even find someone who'd use LB more than two times in a dungeons entirely on their own., or if most of the ones who do excellent damage weren't morons trying to screw the team somehow. And I definitely won't commend anyone who "strategically" NEVER use anything good. Showing that you can get away with doing less or teetering on the edge of failure will not win me over, it only makes me like you less that the rest of us gotta bust our butts making sure we don't take forever.

It's not to say I'll default to the tank or heals, simply because one kept us alive and the other kept threat. Again, showing that you can get away with less or with teetering on the edge of failure will make me not trust you. Tanks not using CDs to better help DPS kill the mobs and make the healer have a better time, poorly controlling mechanics they are responsible for, or stay at 90~99% threat for no good reason, means you're not getting commended. Healers who focus too much on DPS, neglect to utilize regens/barriers, neglect to even try to dispel DoTs (this one's really bad in Void Ark), tells you to run back instead of reviving you in the middle of the fight, be overconfident and fail to back it up, neglect to top players off frequently, or make it clear that your healing philosophy is DPS#1, then that means you're not getting commended, especially the last one. And if nobody did a good job for no good reason, then commend nobody. I can forgive a weak tank if they've tried, a DPS who wants to be better, or a clueless healer who doesn't give us a hard time for no good reason as I try to help them, and if the rest of the party is straight up terrible for no good reason then I'm commending the aforementioned player.

[Februs]

And we can say the same about tanks and healers. We all have to deal with it lol. You guys aren't as good as you think

Oh, trust me. I know. One of the reasons I have only Drg at 60 is because I can't stomach watching someone else butcher my main jobs. That being said, I don't see Tanks or Healers standing in stupid nearly as often as I see Dps. I used to attribute that to positional requirements and cast times, but after I leveled my Drg (which I initially did back when their combo bonuses were still tied to proper positioning) it was thrown back into mystery, because it's really not that hard to dodge.

Most of my commendations as DPS were either by being a great guide/help, making excellent use of my supportive/healing abilities and evasion, using LB as soon as possible more than once(never vs last boss if I'm not melee, unless melee is dead), and/or in rarer occasions dealing excellent damage. Sometimes I get the feeling a good bunch of them are before the others didn't do so well.

I typically base my Dps commendations on how many CD's I had to burn during mob pulls. If the Dps are slow and I have to use extra CDs in a prolonged fight, no Dps comms. If they're fast though, I'm more than willing to hand out a Comm to the dps (sometimes just for the sake of variety), but then you have the additional challenge of figuring out which Dps are the most worthy of that comm, which is hard to do without some mystical way of determining which one had the highest Dps output.

Healers get comms based on how well they kept me alive. If I have to nerf my Dps to focus on mitigation because the healer is struggling when they shouldn't be (or prioritizing personal Dps over healing), then they don't get a comm. If they efficiently keep me alive without the need for me to nerf my own Dps or pop additional CD's. They get a comm. If they can do that while Dps'ing as well. I'd give them two Comms if I could.

Tanks I'm a bit stricter on, since I main Tank. I sometimes focus target them to keep an eye on their CD rotation to see if they are worthy of the comm, and I judge them based on how smoothly they handle each pull, positioning, defensive Cd's, and offensive contributions to the Dps. Considerate Tanks get more credibility than self-proclaimed badasses, but I only comm them if they are doing it all right (within reason).

[Jim_Berry]

Hard content is even worse. Most wipes should be from boss mechanics. Instead, they are widely caused by either (1) Dps standing in so much stupid that they die and the healers have to waste time and mana raising them, or (2) not meeting Dps checks and wiping the whole group. Given that Dps rotations are all well documented and on a pretty tight leash (sometimes right down to the second for which buffs should be applied at what times), this is mind blowing.

Not all. I'll give you an example with NIN. We have Suiton, Hide, and Trick Attack. Trick Attack "Can only be executed when under the effect of Hide". You'd be surprised that some NINs wouldn't use Trick Attack in battle because they can't use Hide while engaged. They have to be informed that Suiton triggers Trick Attack. The game doesn't tell us that. Heck, when I first started NIN, I thought Suiton gave me added water damage until I kept seeing Trick Attack glowing.

So, not all abilites are documented in the tooltips.

[Starbirth]

When I compared ff14's dps classes to other mmos I noticed many of them, especially melee classes, have the difficulty of their rotations inflated.

In all honesty I would prefer them to remove positionals and make more mechanically complex fights.

...or better yet have a job focus on one position like monk/ninja for back and dragoon for side.

you know what? screw it. All tank abilities have halved potency if not done in the front.

[Jim_Berry]

When I compared ff14's dps classes to other mmos I noticed many of them, especially melee classes, have the difficulty of their rotations inflated.

In all honesty I would prefer them to remove positionals and make more mechanically complex fights.

...or better yet have a job focus on one position like monk/ninja for back and dragoon for side.

you know what? screw it. All tank abilities have halved potency if not done in the front.

I agree!

Also, the thing that bothers me is people's expectations on Faust. People shouted at me for stepping on Faust's flank. I told them it was for higher potency for Armor Crush. They yelled say to stay behind him at all times. Then, we had a MNK getting yelled at for the same thing. When Faust died after three wipes, we won because me, the DRG, and the MNK went back to doing positionals.

Now, there's another argument there; the tank said if we can't kill Faust without positionals, we suck as DPS. The MNK said, "lets see u tank faust without your cds". We never got to fight Oppressor because the MNK and WAR argued for 20 minutes, then the SCH bailed, followed slowly by everyone else.

[Dyvid]

I agree!

Also, the thing that bothers me is people's expectations on Faust. People shouted at me for stepping on Faust's flank. I told them it was for higher potency for Armor Crush. They yelled say to stay behind him at all times. Then, we had a MNK getting yelled at for the same thing. When Faust died after three wipes, we won because me, the DRG, and the MNK went back to doing positionals.

Now, there's another argument there; the tank said if we can't kill Faust without positionals, we suck as DPS. The MNK said, "lets see u tank faust without your cds". We never got to fight Oppressor because the MNK and WAR argued for 20 minutes, then the SCH bailed, followed slowly by everyone else.

Honestly I don't Savage anything and not really sure why they said to not dps on his flank, sounds odd to me. As for back story the alpha testers wanted positional added back into the game so that's why it's part of the core design. Not sure what people mean when they say more mechanically complex.

As for your hidden debate, when you use Hide the status icon displays Hidden. All Rogues/Ninjas should know this since they have been using Hide > Sneak Attack since level 22. In fact the Lv. 25 Quest tells you how to hide then use sneak attack from the front. The game does a good job at tell people how to play the job, the problem is most people couldn't have bother to listen.