Rant on healers acting as a dps role

[Twilite]

The problem is: people are demanding farm strategies from learning parties.

Which is kinda like asking a new born baby to use the toilet.

[RajaVamberaux]

The problem is: people are demanding farm strategies from learning parties.

I have to disagree on this one. I think people should be practicing fights from the get-go the way they expect to execute them long-term. Meaning, SCHs should be DPSing the first phases of Thordan Ex even in learning parties -- Why should we even practice with the SCH helping the main healer when the WHM/AST should be solo-healing 5 runs from now? Same goes for A1S and A2S - why even practice *not dpsing* when the healers will be DPSing on farm and should striving towards that from the start.

In other words, not DPSing in learning parties is not learning the fight.

Edit: Inb4 the haters arrive: of course(!) you should be conservative but you should still be constantly looking out for the 'oh here's 3 or 4 GCDs of no healing I can DPS here'

[AzureFlare]

I have to disagree on this one. I think people should be practicing fights from the get-go the way they expect to execute them long-term. Meaning, SCHs should be DPSing the first phases of Thordan Ex even in learning parties -- Why should we even practice with the SCH helping the main healer when the WHM/AST should be solo-healing 5 runs from now? Same goes for A1S and A2S - why even practice *not dpsing* when the healers will be DPSing on farm and should striving towards that from the start.

In other words, not DPSing in learning parties is not learning the fight.

Edit: Inb4 the haters arrive: of course(!) you should be conservative but you should still be constantly looking out for the 'oh here's 3 or 4 GCDs of no healing I can DPS here'

That doesn't sound like a disagreement as much as asking what is defined as 'farm' and what is defined as 'learn', ergo discussing semantics.

I think what it rather boils down to is in a farm party you are expected to do things because you should have the skill to negate the risk factor in a risk vs reward decision. In a learning party that 'skill compensation' would be way lower.
Like how in a good farm party a tank + healer combo would be fine tanking a low damage phase with the tank not being in tank stance and the healer actively dancing, but in a learning party either the tank stays in tank stance or the healer would not be dancing. Also things like comfort Succor/Aspected Helios/Medica 2 for padding which is horribly inefficient but gives a sense of security. Likewise in a learning party I know there will always be a melee DPS using B4B (or a BLM using Convert. I've had one using Convert just before Holiest of Holy and killing themselves because they brought themselves to critical HP) at some dumb moment so I'm expecting it and preparing ahead.

In a farm party for Thordan ex I'm expecting DPS during meteors to not need healing if they start the phase full HP after the knockback beyond Galvanize/Aspected Helios/Medica 2 on (pick one, should be enough). In a kill party I'm expecting them to at least be smart enough to stay close to the inside so I don't have to single-target heal every one of them. In a learning party, I'm already expecting a DPS and another party member will derp and collide and almost get each other killed and I'm also 100% sure there will be that guy that stands as close to the wall as possible with B4B on. You know, that guy

[TatoRazzino]

I have to disagree on this one. I think people should be practicing fights from the get-go the way they expect to execute them long-term. Meaning, SCHs should be DPSing the first phases of Thordan Ex even in learning parties -- Why should we even practice with the SCH helping the main healer when the WHM/AST should be solo-healing 5 runs from now? Same goes for A1S and A2S - why even practice *not dpsing* when the healers will be DPSing on farm and should striving towards that from the start.

In other words, not DPSing in learning parties is not learning the fight.

Edit: Inb4 the haters arrive: of course(!) you should be conservative but you should still be constantly looking out for the 'oh here's 3 or 4 GCDs of no healing I can DPS here'

You won't know if you can DPS until you've experienced the fight for yourself. Approaching any fight with the "I have to DPS this phase" is basically ignoring the whole context; maybe your group won't be able to follow the pro strat, maybe your main healer needs some runs to warm up and learn the flow of damage before the off healer can be in Cleric. Every group is different and no one can know what to expect unless they have seen a video; and even then, behaving like the pro groups and not practicing the fights looking for different strategies that are better for your group is the same thing as saying "there's only one way to do the fight and we should do it". That's a lie. Everyone should look for what works best for them. People don't think outside their boxes and this is why they fail.

[Stupiduglytaru]

Please check whms 50-60 heavensward ability's and tell me how many relate to dps?

Exactly dps then.

[Sidra]

If the common strat for farm parties is to have have the main healer heal/dps a phase while the off healer just dps's that is how I want to learn it. So for example Thordan - when I learned that fight on Astro was on like the 3rd day when a lot of groups were farming already. I told my co-healer not to heal or shield at all in P1. If they helped than I would think my rotations are sufficient and would have to change everything up once they dial back - I'd have to relearn it which seems silly. We had 3 or 4 wipes as I tinkered with my healing/dps rotation was learning and those wipes were 100% on me. But after those - phase learned and we were doing it the optimal way getting about 500dps from me and 800 from the SCH with everyone safe. Rinse and repeat as we learn the next phases. Because of the practice with minimalistic help healing, I can now solo heal the fight comfortably. Because after learning it and some experience farming, there were really only 2-3 small parts I had to solution for to do it as I was already solo healing the rest of it. And I don't even consider myself a good healer - I just learned it the correct way.

So I see all of these posts complaining about a dping co-healer or stating that type of play is Only for Elysium level. I can't disagree more - in the game now it's the common successful way and learning parties should be learning how to do it like that.

Which is kinda like asking a new born baby to use the toilet.

A better example would be it's like asking a 4yr old to use the toilet. We know a baby shouldn't be able to But someone playing this game has the capability to if they learn how.

[Vepazu]

Taru Vepazu here just wanted to let you know that i'm switching to phoenix on xmas day looking forward to squadding up with you boys. Can't trust Mael defectors btw they're trying to tell people phoenix is dead and they're trying to get ppl to go Cerberus im assuming so that they will switch back to mael eventually and in turn force those that went with them to defect to mael
se you soon lets pwn noob together ;P

[TatoRazzino]

snip.

You can do what suits you best, of course, but your way isn't the "correct" way to do any fight. There is no such thing. The way I see it, you wasted a lot of pulls to learn how to control the flow of damage, and those pulls could have been used to learn mechanics instead. Back when Alexander - Savage was launched, people didn't bring Astrologians claiming that a WHM could correct more mistakes and keep the pulls going longer while the group learned the mechanics; well, having two healers healing makes everything safer, and the pulls get even longer.
I learn how to control damage in a different way: I analyze how damage is going, I see if I'm overhealing or not, I see when shielding was wasted or not, then I ask my co-healer to drop healing at specific points to see how it goes. I don't like to waste any pulls with wipes from healing, because, in my opinion, that delays progress. I only worry about DPS numbers when the party hits enrage multiple times and everyone is alive, that means the group has to push DPS (pots, better food etc.). However, that's just my method, and I believe every group must do what's best for themselves. What I dislike is this silly imposition "one has to heal and the other one obly DPSes, anything beyond that is not the proper way to do it", because it creates more problems than it solves.

[Havenscythe]

Usually that's done to ensure that the group isn't bitten a hard enrage timer, plus usually the first few phases of most fights aren't too hard on healers. Usually it's WHM/SCH or AST/SCH so the AST or WHM who is usually solo healing has the aid of the scholar's pet. Even then skilled WHMs will do DPS even when assigned as the solo healer. ASTs dps rotation differs a little because our dps isn't comparable to WHM's and we don't have assize for bonus mana.

[AzureFlare]

Usually that's done to ensure that the group isn't bitten a hard enrage timer, plus usually the first few phases of most fights aren't too hard on healers. Usually it's WHM/SCH or AST/SCH so the AST or WHM who is usually solo healing has the aid of the scholar's pet. Even then skilled WHMs will do DPS even when assigned as the solo healer. ASTs dps rotation differs a little because our dps isn't comparable to WHM's and we don't have assize for bonus mana.

Well excuse me while I hit my Combusts with 100% accuracy and pull my hair out 'cause RNG decided to roll 'lolno' whenever I Aero 3/Aero 2 and the BRD isn't there/doesn't know how to keep up Rain of Death debuff. The difference between WHM and AST isn't that large it is noteworthy unless you get to lolAssize/lolAero3 multiple targets in one go.