Does Tank Stance mean you're "bad?"

[Temaridesertstorm]

Don't the tank stances either increase HP or reduce damage? There's very few times where having your tank stance off is a good idea since the healer can put out a LOT more dps than a tank, and if you don't have that mitigation then they can't do so.

Agreed. Especially if you're MT, tank stance is a must. It may mean a decline in your DPS, but you're the tank, not a DPS. Better to stay alive and prevent healers from dying than die due to being out of tank stance. I'm fairly new to tanking, but I like to have my tank stance on as much as possible for situations where the MT dies due to being out of tank stance. That way, no one can complain that the OT wasn't picking up the slack.

[Brian_]

Maybe if you're new to tanking, you shouldn't be making statements about how the role should be played, especially when said statements are just cringe worthy.

As an OT, why are you in your tank stance? There is zero reason. You have provoke to snag aggro if the MT dies and you have defensive CDs to tide the initial shift in damage intake if you're a PLD or DRK and have to wait to turn on ShO or Grit.

DPS is not only the job of DPS. It is the shared job of the entire group. No job in this game is exclusive to a role. It's the healer's job to keep people alive but DPS needs to do their part and not take unneeded damage. Tanks need to do their part with effective defensive CD usage. It's the tank's job to survive the damage but they obviously need healer support and DPS needs to apply the relevant debuffs -- Dragon Kick, Apocatastasis, Virus, etc.

But regarding the specifics of DPS, no, healer's don't deal "a LOT more dps than a tank." The DPS you gain between a healer healing a tank in tank stance vs. no-tank stance does not compare to the DPS tanks gain by stance dancing properly to maximize their DPS. At most, you lose a small portion of the "fluff" DPS (stone, malefic, broil spam).

And, as the game currently is, you do not need the eHP given by your tank stance unless you're a bad tank or have a bad healer. And, the eHP given by your tank stance comes at a massive cost when alternatives come at a much lower cost.

[fm_fenrir]

I roll MT with tank stance on in void ark in particular, because DF healers aren't exactly known for their ability to keep up with incoming damage in VA. VA bosses hit harder than expert bosses, but if the healers are on point I'll flip over to ShO and throw in some DPS. Reminder: A dead MT means the next target is very likely a DPS, not an OT who doesn't actually want to tank.

[Ashkendor]

Agreed. Especially if you're MT, tank stance is a must. It may mean a decline in your DPS, but you're the tank, not a DPS. Better to stay alive and prevent healers from dying than die due to being out of tank stance. I'm fairly new to tanking, but I like to have my tank stance on as much as possible for situations where the MT dies due to being out of tank stance. That way, no one can complain that the OT wasn't picking up the slack.

Having tank stance up as OT is actually a bad idea. If your MT is using a DPS rotation (which they should be doing after initial aggro is established) you can rip the boss off them if you're not using your skills correctly and you have tank stance up, especially those of us that like to tank more aggressively (which usually entails swapping to DPS stance and using cd's). This leads to situations where the boss will cleave the party, or at the very least, will cause melee to lose positionals which can be a substantial DPS loss.

There are plenty of fights where "main tank" just means "the dude that needs more accuracy since the boss faces him" because the damage output is laughable. I don't see anything wrong in tanking in DPS stance when additional mitigation just isn't needed.

[Brian_]

I roll MT with tank stance on in void ark in particular, because DF healers aren't exactly known for their ability to keep up with incoming damage in VA. VA bosses hit harder than expert bosses, but if the healers are on point I'll flip over to ShO and throw in some DPS. Reminder: A dead MT means the next target is very likely a DPS, not an OT who doesn't actually want to tank.

Reminder: A dead MT means the next target should 100% be a WAR if there is a WAR.

[Rampage]

I don't see anything wrong in tanking in DPS stance when additional mitigation just isn't needed.

This and other comments are very good, but the OP described a situation where a person got into tank stance and kept it on when sh** hit the fan and was called a bad tank. I think we can all agree the answer here is no. Our priority is to maintain hate especially when people arent cooperating. I would rather be "bad" and finish the fight than wipe from hate bouncing around.

[Ashkendor]

This and other comments are very good, but the OP described a situation where a person got into tank stance and kept it on when sh** hit the fan and was called a bad tank. I think we can all agree the answer here is no. Our priority is to maintain hate especially when people arent cooperating. I would rather be "bad" and finish the fight than wipe from hate bouncing around.

I understand what OP was talking about. My reply to OP was this:

Using tank stance doesn't make you bad. Knowing when you need to use it is actually part of being good.

The reply you quoted was aimed only at the person I quoted, regarding the notion that tanks should always be in tank stance.

[SpookyGhost]

There's very few times where having your tank stance off is a good idea since the healer can put out a LOT more dps than a tank, and if you don't have that mitigation then they can't do so.

Hiya! Just want to clear up a little confusion here. Yes, healer DPS can be very good - if a healer is DPSing in casual content I love them to bits because they speed up the run immensely. However, something important to remember is that the tank's DPS is reliant on the healer and the healer's DPS is reliant on the tank. The two work in tandem, one does not exist without the other putting in the effort to make it so. Therefore, optimally, you would want to maximize both as a whole, not prioritize one over the other. Due to the low incoming damage in content like this, you can afford to be out of tank stance as long as you're using your defensive cooldowns appropriately. If you need to be in tank stance to survive, you should be in tank stance, because being dead is way less DPS than being alive and in tank stance.

All this said, stance dancing requires gear, so the tank in OP's group wasn't going to generate enough threat to take aggro without tank stance. Personally, when I'm forced to tank the last boss because the MT died (this has happened more times than I'd like to admit), I do it in 24/7 tank stance simply because I usually eat the vulnerability stacks because my mind is elsewhere when I'm in Void Ark.

Anyway, that aside, just think of it like this. Let's say, with tank stance and you full time DPSing, I'm doing 10 DPS and you're doing 7 DPS. If I turn off tank stance and use my defensive CDs properly, you're now only doing 5 DPS but I'M doing 15 DPS. See what I'm saying here?

[AriaEnia]

Tank stance is bad idea, it's generally useless. If you are not full str, you're bad and suboptimal, and also if you can't hold agro in dps stance, then a tank might not be the class for you.
I think you should try another class that fits you.

[SpookyGhost]

Tank stance is bad idea, it's generally useless. If you are not full str, you're bad and suboptimal, and also if you can't hold agro in dps stance, then a tank might not be the class for you.
I think you should try another class that fits you.

I'm assuming this is bait/sarcasm, but on the off chance it's not, every tank grabs snap aggro in tank stance unless it's on the pull and with Shadewalker. Being suboptimal in Void Ark really isn't make or break unless everyone is afk.