The Bottom Feeders: Moves You Never Use and Why (Ver. 2)

[Eisenhower]

[Cure III's] radius is laughably tiny.

Cure III covers an area as big as Asylum. I wouldn't call that "tiny".

[technole]

As for Stella, it's been mentioned already that it serves as a means to slow adds in specific fights (Dreadknights in T5 or Slimes in A3, for example). Chances are it was designed for this very purpose, given that several of the new boss fights are tailored to the new jobs (A4's magic dmg, for example, is custom tailored to Drk's Dark Mind ability). Otherwise, though, it does seem awfully useless. That being said, I have seen Astro's get a lot of utility out of it in PvP.

Useless? DRK Dark Arts+Dark Mind is the perfect cooldown rotation for the A1S plasma tank busters, it's up for everyone of them, and arguably the best of the tanks. Combine with AST's Disable or SCH Virus, and that thing won't even take a 1/3 of a DRK's HP. A3S Tether, A4S Carnage Zero. The cooldown is pretty darn good for for the heavy hitters of Alex Savage.

Warriors are good in PvP against Astro, it's all about getting Storms Eye up to cut down their healing potency, this allows the shields to break easier and others to burst them down.

[Februs]

Useless? DRK Dark Arts+Dark Mind etc

I was referring to Stella, not Dark Mind.

Drk's Dark Mind was just an example of how HW content is tailored for the 3 new jobs, since Magic defense comes in handy for MT's more frequently and gives Drk's an advantage in that position (which is why I put that part in brackets).

[technole]

I was referring to Stella, not Dark Mind.

Drk's Dark Mind was just an example of how HW content is tailored for the 3 new jobs, since Magic defense comes in handy for MT's more frequently and gives Drk's an advantage in that position (which is why I put that part in brackets).

Stella is just a lighter potency Stone I. 40% heavy was never useless in the first place though, most people in the game don't do end game content (at-least when it's current) like Coil and Alex Savage so they don't see the value of these skills aside from leveling/solo content. It's just like Scholar Dissipation, It's such a good skill in end-game if one plays the job to it's fullest extent.

[Februs]

Stella is just a lighter potency Stone I. 40% heavy was never useless in the first place though, most people in the game don't do end game content (at-least when it's current) like Coil and Alex Savage so they don't see the value of these skills aside from leveling/solo content. It's just like Scholar Dissipation, It's such a good skill in end-game if one plays the job to it's fullest extent.

For me, it seems like Stella has more of a niche usage. I get what you're saying about end-game content, but even in end-game I can only think of one fight in which Stella would come in handy (A3). It's not totally useless, but it certainly is a very rarely used (or rarely needed) skill. The part that I think bugs me about it the most is that its niche usage is made even more unnecessary by other jobs that have the exact same effect. Given that Whm's have Stone at a higher potency, Stella a waste of Dps/Mp expenditure if the Raid has a Whm/Astro combo. The only time the Astro would even need to use it is if the Whm can't keep up with the number of slimes to slow for some reason.

Personally, I like that the Skill has at least some utility, no matter how limited it is, but there is definitely room for improvement either by a potency increase or additional effect that would make Stella a unique asset to the Astro.

[mp-please]

If you think someone is "terrible" because they are under-using a ability or missing it's utility somehow, then perhaps you can enlighten them on a better way to go about using said move.

One of the intentions of a thread like this was for more experienced players to help out the scrubs. Telling people they're a bad player doesn't really help anyone. If anything it just stops the newer players from posting questions out of fear of beingcriticized. Given you offered no context for the so-called "terrible" players, and you've offered no advice from your own experience and knowledge, your comment seems to serve no purpose in the thread whatsoever.

This whole thread by itself is bad because every single skills have a use in a way or another, stuns, silences, heavies, are meant to be used situationally and not constantly as main toolkit skills.
Never using certain skills or removing them from hotkeys all together is what makes a player a bad player. For example, how some people say they never use stella, miasma II and stone I. Those skills are invaluable on stuff like T5 dreadknights and A3S trash, but because people who say that aren't lv 60 yet or don't raid at all, they never use those skills because expert and 24 man raids are their "endgame". But then slimes on ST could be heavied so the point is moot.

I keep forgetting to mention. I took Fluid Aura off my cross bars. >_>

You do realize fluid aura is a 150 free potency attack that can be weaved between stone(II/III) spam and ideally used together with aero to increase the potency and so make the best use of the gcd right? It's also the only skill that can interrupt any cast as long the target is moveable.

[VanilleFang]

You do realize fluid aura is a 150 free potency attack that can be weaved between stone(II/III) spam and ideally used together with aero to increase the potency and so make the best use of the gcd right? It's also the only skill that can interrupt any cast as long the target is moveable.

Yes, I do. But like I said I don't really have room for it.

Though now I think about it I could probably make room for it. I use to use it all the time before HW, but with how I had to change my Cross Bars I removed it and never put it back in.

[Miyha]

AST: The only skill I really don't use at all is Stella. I know it can be useful in situations where I may need to slow adds though (and in PvP if/when I ever start doing that), so I keep it relatively easy to access. I also don't use Malefic I as much unless I need to be really conservative with my MP. Other than those, I use pretty much all of my AST skills.
WHM: Stone I is pretty much the same situation as Stella, and Stone II is the same situation as Malefic I. I also never use Cure III: I have only ever seen it be semi-useful a small handful of times, and I don't think it's really worth the MP cost unless it procs (and it almost never procs when it could be useful). I think I ended up taking it off my hotbar, but I may be putting it back on if I can get a capable group for Thordan EX, since that's the main instance in which I've found it to be useful. X/ I also don't use Fluid Aura as much in endgame/group content, but I find it useful when I'm soloing to keep enemies at a distance and interrupt casts. (Also handy in groups when I pull aggro from an add.)
SCH: I don't use Ruin II much, though perhaps I should. |D; I only use Ruin I anymore when I want to be ultra-conservative with MP. I also haven't had to use Fey Caress as much, but then again, I haven't run very much content with my SCH that would require me to dispel the entire party. Haven't used Silent Dawn much either, save to interrupt a few ouchie skills. To be fair, SCH is my weakest of the healing classes: I'm not that great with it, even though I think it's really fun to play. ;;;;

I'm not sure if this counts, because I still use it relatively often, but on all three of my healers I really don't get as much use out of Stoneskin as I probably should. I like to throw it up on party members before boss fights (which I often don't have time to do unless I'm on my WHM and have Stoneskin II, since everyone just runs straight into battle and it's time to start healing), or on the tank before a big pull/tank buster, but other than that, it seems like a waste of MP to keep casting it, and it's a rather slow cast unless I blow a Swiftcast on it. >< A HoT/shield if I'm on SCH or Nocturnal AST usually comes in handier for quick mitigation.

[Februs]

This whole thread by itself is bad because every single skills have a use in a way or another, stuns, silences, heavies, are meant to be used situationally and not constantly as main toolkit skills.

I think, perhaps, you may have missed the entire point of the thread and should go back and read the original post. Again, the point was not to specify "bad" or "useless" moves. Nor was the point for supposedly more experienced players to belittle other posters who might be misusing their skills and are in need of some guidance. The point was to identify which moves are used the least in your kit and how you might improve your (or someone else's) usage of said moves.

The idea is to identify moves with niche uses, or even moves that you just might not use much because you're inexperienced and looking for some guidance. Niche moves such as Stella, Miasma II, or Stone I are perfect examples. Calling them "invaluable" is a gross overstatement (considering that any Dps team worth their salt does not need crutches do do their job, and almost everyone has at least a stun in their rotation), but they do have specific usages in specific environments that not everyone might be aware of. People who are not at 60 or have simply not run raid content on a specific job, for example, benefit from the advice of players who have more experience than them.

That is what this thread is for: sharing experience. Obviously there are some moves that come up frequently because there are some moves that have more niche usages than others. This is especially true for moves that have a duplicate functions to moves found on other jobs (IE: Stella vs. Stone I in which Stone I wins out with higher potency). That's fine. This just provides a place for people to identify those moves and discuss those uses in detail. If that's not for you, than you are free to not participate. I'm sure there are plenty of other threads out there for you to indulge in.

[VanilleFang]

Stoneskin

I'm not sure about others but I sometimes use Stoneskin to prolong my DPS time. I cast Regen on the tank (with DS when possible) and then throw a Stoneskin on them before I DPS. It just helps to mitigate some damage and allows Regen to heal some missing HP. I only do this if the tank is pretty good though, and if I'm comfortable with pushing their safety by DPSing a lot.

And since it doesn't get effected by CS I will cast it in between bursts of DPS if Regen is still up.