Does SE want to us go back to WoW? Because this is how you lose MORE players to WoW.

[Moqi]

It's a perfectly reasonable argument when such a large number of people complaining are basically coming off as if they are being forced to do something they don't want to do, when it is, in fact, 100%, unarguably their choice to do it.

No it is not because it absolves the devs on any accountability on the quality of any piece of content they produce that isn't the MSQ. They could put anything in the game and it wouldn't matter because "oh well, it's optional". You paid for it anyway and there is nothing wrong with wanting your money worth 100%, so yeah, it is going to be judged like any other piece of content that my sub gives me access to.

If you consider the game to be only what you like about it, you're always gonna end up with nothing but perfect approval, no matter what is actually in the (entire) game. I'll let you guess what that sounds like.

[Zophar]

I'm sorry, that's just not how a game like this works. The game is designed to have a multitude of content so that everyone can find something they enjoy about it. Not that every single piece of content must be something every single person can enjoy. Good example, I hate crafting with a fiery passion. I hate the system behind it and find the whole thing mind numbing. But, I accept that I don't have to do it, because I can get by on other means, and I'm perfectly happy. Should I instead be coming to the forums day in and day out trying to overthrow the entire system because "I'm not enjoying 100% of all content?"

I'm sorry. But like it or not, you are not entitled to enjoy every aspect of the game. It wouldn't matter if you paid $50 a month. Your subscription only guarantees your right to play the game.

[Moqi]

"Your subscriptions only allows you access to the game, you're not allowed to judge its quality". Well ok then.

[DPZ2]

I also want to point out, for the incoming white knights

Out of curiosity, are you using the term "White Knights" derisively? If so, can one assume you are a Black Knight (also usable derisively)? Should we require the addition of a "WK" or "BK" tag so we can skip posts from the opposition?

Most importantly, do you think using such terms enhances your argument?

Just wondering.

[DPZ2]

The optional content excuse has go to be one of the highest form of blinding fanboyism, like it makes any kind of difference what kind of content it is.

Hmmmm. I don't have a Zodiac Weapon from ARR. I could already get better gear when Heavensward came out than that ultimate high-end weapon provides, so why bother with the grind?

That makes it 'optional', or, in layman's terms "not necessary for proper progression in the game".

Using "fanboyism" as a pejorative demeans any argument you might want to make. Cut it out.

[Moqi]

Do you have a point or did you just want to show me you learned how to use a dictionary?

[Blitzace]

WoW's Legendary weapons are incredibly uninteresting to me. There's nothing Legendary about them when everyone is going to get one just for leveling up.

I'd much rather have a long grind for a weapon that isn't handed out like candy, personally.

Give this man a cookie! Someone who gets it.
Seriously, all this whining, let me give a suggestion. Stop flooding the forum with tears, unsub, and sub to WoW?

[DPZ2]

"Your subscriptions only allows you access to the game, you're not allowed to judge its quality". Well ok then.

Hahaha. I see what you did there. You must watch TV news a lot, taking a page from their "add something to the quote that wasn't actually there". Good job!

You are absolutely allowed to share your judgement about quality. So far, I haven't seen any such judgement in one of your posts.

You do provide interesting examples of false logical arguments though.

To all who wish to encourage Square Enix to make changes to their MMO -- get together, formulate a general outline of your complaints, along with what you'd like to see as a resolution (note, not HOW to do it, but what it should look like), and SEND IT DIRECTLY VIA MAIL to the company. 100 or 1000 complaints on a forum, where you are anonymous is much less powerful than a concentrated letter campaign.

[Eisengrim]

I would just like to point out a couple things. This thread started out as people pointing out that the reward for all this grinding is kind of bland. It's just another weapon that has another pretty skin. Nothing else unique about it. It would be nice to have some unique abilities or traits added to them, to make them actually feel unique and powerful. That doesn't have to be game breaking or OP.

Also, some of the people complaining about it aren't trying to be whiney, entitled, or lazy. They were probably looking forward to having a goal to work towards while doing something more innovative instead of grinding old content. Grinds are fine, but there should be some innovation in the grind. Personally, I was hoping for a questline somewhat similar to the first 2.0 relic that included farming tomes, running a dungeon for items, as well as several trials. Instead after all this time we are given a very simple quest with a huge grind of nothing but old content, that will result in a weapon that isn't much better than other weapons.

I'm probably still going to work on this relic quest slowly and I will probably find parts of it fun and entertaining, but I'm still a little disappointed that not much effort seems to have been put into it. I feel as though a good chunk of the people expressing their displeasure probably feel the same way.

[Zophar]

To all who wish to encourage Square Enix to make changes to their MMO -- get together, formulate a general outline of your complaints, along with what you'd like to see as a resolution (note, not HOW to do it, but what it should look like), and SEND IT DIRECTLY VIA MAIL to the company. 100 or 1000 complaints on a forum, where you are anonymous is much less powerful than a concentrated letter campaign.

Thank you. That is exactly how I feel. I'm not one to bash constructive criticism. Aimless whining though. That's a different story. If every person who came here to complain about the relic, also gave a well thought out idea on what they could have done differently (and I'm not just talking about "Make it easier! With less stuff!") the devs might come up with ideas they might not have thought of otherwise. Just screaming that the devs have done a horrible job, and you hate them, and you want to unsub, doesn't help as much as people seem to think.

"Your subscriptions only allows you access to the game, you're not allowed to judge its quality". Well ok then.

I definitely never, at any point tried to deny anyone's right to judge. That is your right. You may feel free. All I've done is debate, what I believe to be bad arguments. That is what we, as adults, do.