Why is "It's something to do" apparently a valid defense?

[PawsTheKitti123]

The people in this thread are really rude, apparently no one is allowed to have fun in FFXIV just because they aren't atm.

I agree and you know what? I laugh at the rude people. Haha, you cant do your relic quest because you hate it. Good. I respect and applaud those who arent complaining and hate it and those who enjoy it. If you like it, ignore the losers and enjoy the game. Even if ff is boring, play other games then. Its not the only game in the world.

[AzureFlare]

Stuff

Even if it isn't the only game in the world, from the 'other' side, saying it is alright just for the fact 'it is something to do' or 'you can play another game' is a horrible argument. Yeah, a decent argument as a player, but you essentially tell them 'good, we don't need ya, go off to y'r other stinkin' games'. Well, you essentially just told'm to stop investing in SE. I know if that were to happen to my designs I'd at least have a little bit of a bitter aftertaste.
And yeah, both sides have some absolute scum defending/attacking the matter. However, a game, or in an MMO's case, the content should be good enough you're willing to defend it against veteran players by mentioning the content/mechanics/quirkiness it has. Not because 'there is another fish in the sea'. I can't say I've seen such an argument delivered more than three times by the 'defending' side.
Meanwhile the attacking side, while spewing their own vile, has also provoked thought many more times and shown many more arguments in their opinion's favor. And no, I didn't bloat the stats with carbon copies.

Man, really you guys play RPGs and MMO's and you expect to them not have grinds? LOLOLOL

Last time I grinded, it a) wasn't as long in either of the genres you depicted unless it was a survival mode and b) it was worth the effort way more. Justifying a massive grind just because there have been grinds is really passé.

[Shiki_Lockhart]

Last time I grinded, it a) wasn't as long in either of the genres you depicted unless it was a survival mode and b) it was worth the effort way more. Justifying a massive grind just because there have been grinds is really passé.

Sure, but relic isn't hard to get, just take time. I know that there will be some nolifes spamming alex 800x until they bleed just to be the first ones to get the relic but that's their own ego, goal and satisfaction. Now, I can't imagine myself spaming 800x alex so I will do a bit of every option available and get there. Like doing daily beastmen quests, doing the roulettes to get poetics and law to trade for 680 for those items when I can, mine every day for 1 map a day to see if I get some luck and then alex a bit every day and who knows some hunts.

Don't come here a few months later crying, when this relic is the BiS and you didn't do because of your reasons, because you are a lot behind now and ask for nerf so you can complete like how happened with the zeta relic. One thing you need to know, this is first step, don't take it as finished and don't worth doing because will hurt more on the long road if you don't follow.

[Loony_BoB]

The way I see it, there needs to be a long grind to keep this game moving. I do feel they could have done things a bit differently, of course, but I also respect that SE do more for FFXIV than (to my knowledge) any other MMO developer out there when it comes to content per major patch.

Some people seem to think this should have been something that can be completed in a day or two, and some people seem to think this should have been tougher content instead of a long grind. My response to those people would be: You mean, just like all the other content we have in the game already?

Some people hold the criticism of it being unoriginal - we've already done this before. Yes, that's true, and I can see that argument but I also do feel that they are pushing content that has been underutilised, which is a common thing for relic. Still, at least they aren't forcing us to all have Pedigree 9 chocobos.

Some people say that it should have been fresh content, like a series of new trials similar to the old Chimera/Hydra fights. That I can get behind! It would be nice to have at least one fight that was unique to relic.

Some people have stated that they just feel it is too much work grinding away, and these are the people who confuse me most. The entire point of relic is that it is a different kind of weapon that takes time to get, not one that you simply spam your way to in a couple of days (although holy crap at how fast some are pushing through it already). If you wanted something fast, wouldn't you just get one of the other i210 weapons? I suspect we'll see a lot of people with i210 relic soon though - there is no lockout other than time spent working on it, to my knowledge.

My main query to those who want it done differently would be "How would you have done it?"

Personally, my biggest gripe with SE is that they aren't putting out those player surveys they used to a long time ago. I do feel a player survey is well overdue. They used those surveys to get a really good idea of what the players wanted, and they delivered. I just feel SE could use some further guidance on what the players want now, and I don't feel the forums on their own are good enough to give them this information. Perhaps problems like we're seeing here could have been avoided.

[AzureFlare]

Stuff.

How I would've done it different:
Include Crystal Tower, maybe some of Coil (unsynced?). Some actual non-specialist crafting/gathering? Heaven forbid I say it, actual exploration in Diadem over grinding monsters?

Like, we all know relic is also there to give a boost to content that isn't popular (anymore) or to help queues for things that are sort of necessary but taking really long for newer/less regular players. Relic didn't really achieve anything in that aspect.
Alexander was still being done to gear alts or new people and the queue times for it are definitely not bad at all, beastmen dailies had their own carrot already (especially Vanu). Crafting had its own carrot already too for plenty of people but since dungeon gear is dropped like candy and HQ crafted items were regular quest rewards and shoehorning specialist recipes is a real kick in the face. The dungeons are definitely not underplayed past level 50 but they buffed them so much and altered FATEs in no way to guarantee they are worthwhile in a party more so than dungeons, they killed that completely on their own. And treasure maps.. sort of do too actually, just nobody needs to really find a group for it since you can do them in parties of 2 fairly easily and the rewards can be pretty bad.

Even if I can justify defending the relic, I don't see who would like this over a Cookie Clicker minigame. I don't see the new players winning and I don't see the veterans winning. I don't even see anyone winning in-between except the people that want to try out FATEs. That is probably the only thing they got right and it can be skipped anyway. The whole thing just feels like SE telling us 'we'll give you a relic, but first you must help this wounded critter!' and then they give us either perfectly healthy critters or dead critters.

[Dyvid]

How I would've done it different:
Include Crystal Tower, maybe some of Coil (unsynced?). Some actual non-specialist crafting/gathering? Heaven forbid I say it, actual exploration in Diadem over grinding monsters?

Like, we all know relic is also there to give a boost to content that isn't popular (anymore) or to help queues for things that are sort of necessary but taking really long for newer/less regular players. Relic didn't really achieve anything in that aspect.

This is exactly my line of thinking. There is no need to grind so much of content people are already running anyway, Alex:N, but should have focused on stuff people really don't much of like CT, Coil, EX, Treasure Maps, Old Hunts. Could have even tossed MGP and PvP into the mix.

[AzureFlare]

This is exactly my line of thinking. There is no need to grind so much of content people are already running anyway, Alex:N, but should have focused on stuff people really don't much of like CT, Coil, EX, Treasure Maps, Old Hunts. Could have even tossed MGP and PvP into the mix.

Honestly, out of all the things, that is the part that annoys me the most. From a scrubby designer's point of view, relic quest was never really about the player's reward, but about the player's interaction with the content (as is most stuff), especially with old and unused content. That was pretty much the beauty of the old relic past 2.0, liven up the world and the content that needed living up. And they completely missed it.