Regarding healers acting as DPS

[Rivxkobe]

snip.

There has already been more than enough said in reply to this, all good and straight forward but I just wanted to point something else out that no one else has: no one cares if you have leveled all healers or tanks to 60, it is not an argument you can use to say you know better than anyone, just because you get a job to the max level does not mean you know the job. And you prove this by your ignorant, immature and negative posts.

As has been said, healers that deal damage is nothing new. Healers have almost always had some form of offense to help deal with enemies. Some MMOs have healers just sit and heal, but in FFXIV the Role of a healer is to heal and to use their offensive spells to destroy evil and help their party. The developers made the game this way, and whiie you CAN play without DPSing as a healer you are being inefficient and playing how the role was not intended to be played. There is a reason healers learn Mend & Maim and not just Mend.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Having Taken every healer class to 60, and having done healing classes in other MMOs (Not that this matters, as every MMO is different), I can say that not only do I hate using DPS as a healer, I simply won't. The only circumstances that change this are in situations in which taking damage is a guaranteed minimal (The Crystal Auras in Dhamelzel Darkhold) to non-existant (Killing the balls of fire in The Vault). In those situations, I will break out Cleric Stance and Stone II (III).

I'm a healer. When I queue up for Duty Finder, I take up a green box. That green box is for a healer. If a tank signed up in Duty Finder and went pure DPS, he'd be gone in a flash. If A DPS signed up as a wanna-be tank and leveled nothing but Vitality, he'd be laughed at. I am a healer...let me heal.

I am of the opinion that - if you need your healer to contribute to DPS...then your real DPS is doing something wrong in the first place. Not my problem.

Now...on the flip side. As a person that has leveled every tank job to 60...I can not stand it when my healer starts attacking the enemy. If I drop to 25% because they wanted to get in that extra Gravity/Holy, my mood for the dungeon is greatly soured.

Look, I understand that this will never change. DPSing as a healer is a thing in this game, it's not gonna change because I want it to. If I do die, I just smile inwardly, knowing I'm right, and move on. In short, if you want to DPS...do it. I can't stop you...but I'm not gonna like it.

What DOES piss me off, are the healers that spend all their mana DPSing, then yell at me before a boss because I didn't stop and wait for them to get to full mana. 1) Shut up. You decided to waste your mana before the boss fight, now learn to manage it properly. 2) Shut up. Every healing class has a way to regen mana. 3) Shut up. I leveled all three healing classes, and know for a fact that you can keep me alive on the mana you have now. 4) Shut up.

Taking all this into the context:
I've leveled DPS, tank and healer jobs to 60, thus I am an expert in every role now.
I'll cleric's stance when I want to as a healer, but I'll be damned when the healer does it when I'm tanking.
By the logic of "healers should only heal", no role should handle mechanics as they aren't queueing up as "Mechanic handler"
- By that same logic, A1(S) and A4(S) seems like a nightmare if none of the DPS tanks adds as "it's not their job"
Every DPS job has a TP recovery ability, songs/promotion are never necessary

On another note:
No one has ever said healer DPS is needed
If you do die, some factors involved:
-How Suger Honeyed Iced Tea the pull was
-Whether the tanks use CD pre-emptively - I'm looking at you s----ty tanks claiming that you've popped CD 0.5s before your death
-If you've dodged all AoE's - But it's not your job anyway, as you didn't queue as "Dodger" or "Avoider"
Now if you die on a combination of: Overgeared healer&tank, single pack pull, proper use of defensive CDs and the DPS aren't actually AFK eating spaghetti. Then there's a serious player ability issue. And with that:
-How experienced/able is the healer in the first place? Too many players out there who leveled one or two healer jobs to 60 and pretend to be an expert in it without ever trying to push the job to it's limits.

[BorisDaBlade]

Yes the healer is given offensive skills because without them, you could never get through msq or any content for that matter.

A blm can cross class a cure. Does that mean it should be a hybrid dps/healer in dungeons? They have UNLIMITED mana!! Heck maybe before a dungeon starts I'll ask the BLM to cast protect on the party because I've taken all my heal spells off my bar in lieu of the copious amount of offensive skills that have been given to me. (Tbh whm has quite a few, ast not so much).

I do dps in dungeons, it's boring not to, but it's an added bonus and shouldn't be required.

On topic: you shouldn't have been kicked. No one dead? Job done. Dps watches enemy health, healer watches party health, and tank makes sure nobody likes them very much

[Rivxkobe]

Yes the healer is given offensive skills because without them, you could never get through msq or any content for that matter.

A blm can cross class a cure. Does that mean it should be a hybrid dps/healer in dungeons? They have UNLIMITED mana!! Heck maybe before a dungeon starts I'll ask the BLM to cast protect on the party because I've taken all my heal spells off my bar in lieu of the copious amount of offensive skills that have been given to me. (Tbh whm has quite a few, ast not so much).

This is such a backward a$$ argument it doesn't even deserve to be countered with actual logic.

So in response:

[VanilleFang]

A blm can cross class a cure. Does that mean it should be a hybrid dps/healer in dungeons? They have UNLIMITED mana!! Heck maybe before a dungeon starts I'll ask the BLM to cast protect on the party because I've taken all my heal spells off my bar in lieu of the copious amount of offensive skills that have been given to me. (Tbh whm has quite a few, ast not so much).

That's like... completely not even the same thing at. Whatsoever. I don't recall BLM having a way to increase their MND? What? Also I think you mean THM, not BLM. BLM can't CC Cure/Protect.

I do dps in dungeons, it's boring not to, but it's an added bonus and shouldn't be required.

No one ever said it was required. >_>

[BorisDaBlade]

Ah, I did mean thm sorry. It is the same thing. Asking a thm to do something outside their role is the same as asking a healer to do it.

[Ghishlain]

A blm can cross class a cure. Does that mean it should be a hybrid dps/healer in dungeons? They have UNLIMITED mana!! Heck maybe before a dungeon starts I'll ask the BLM to cast protect on the party because I've taken all my heal spells off my bar in lieu of the copious amount of offensive skills that have been given to me. (Tbh whm has quite a few, ast not so much).

Two things:

1. I laugh whenever anyone brings "BLM / SMN using Physick" because they lack an ability that transposes their INT and MND, thus making their healing absolutely trash. Healers have a stance that provides them an equal amount damage stat that matches any DPS in the same ilvl (and a 10% damage to boost!). Let's talk when you're given the ability to boost your MND to healer levels as a buff, okay?
2. BLM cross classing protect and cure? Well, now I know you don't know anything about BLM cross classes! *Insert Red Flag here*

[Saseal]

Are you saying that when healing isn't needed that she should just stand around and not deal damage? Healers that can deal damage is not new. It has been around for a long time and for good reason.

As has been said, healers that deal damage is nothing new. Healers have almost always had some form of offense to help deal with enemies. Some MMOs have healers just sit and heal, but in FFXIV the Role of a healer is to heal and to use their offensive spells to destroy evil and help their party.

^ agreed with all of these.
As they say, 'The best defense is a good offense'.

Meh.

<ramble>
I've been in parties where the DPS is super low, dragging out fights and exhausting tp/mp resources. If I wasn't DPSing, it would have been worse. One can say "then thats just a problem on the DPS", but there it is, all laid out. I don't believe in doing the minimal for something I enjoy when I'm able to do more - and it seems many here have the same sentiment. I'm also not the type that bails at first sign of trouble - I try to adapt, instead.
If no one is dying, then why shouoldn't the healer help DPS? Sure, I've derped my mp if I'm not careful, but I've learned how to deal when that happens - pop SoS or Lumi after the pack dies so natural regen + regen = boom. Done. Holy spamming? pop shroud after a holy or two and tested waters shows the tank holding up.... pop an assize in there. Drop cleric and heal when tank hits about 60-70% hp or when regen/aspected runs out. maybe drop asp helios/medica II or asylum on top of regen so I can DPS longer. If I do lose myself in DPSing my mp away, I tend to stop everything and heal only (usually at about 25/35%). Because no one can pretend they haven't done that.
it really depends on how much I trust the tank and party.
If I trust them, I -will- ham to help the run.
Trust goes both ways.

I DPS heavily on WHM in a lot of dungeons and rarely does someone die to something that was within my control (and sometimes, I gotta prioritize and someone's gunna have to hit the dirt to save the majority). Sometimes shit just happens because I'm trying to deal with lots of things at once (I'm looking at you, vomit monster in void ark. With people spread out out of range 90% of the time.)
I have bad days, sure, but everyone does.

A healer DPSing is NOT indicative of a poor healer. A poor healer is a poor healer.
A good DPSing healer will jump out of cleric when needed and read the situation. Sure, sometimes we're caught with our pants down with Cleric CD, but we're human.
A bad DPSing healer won't read the situation and won't keep tabs. Not to say that something like final sting on a non focus-targetted bee in a mob won't happen (IE, unaware that it was being cast)
A bad healing-only healer will still let the person die, or spam unnecessarily until they're out of mp.

Speaking of - at one point, I went on a low level DPS into a low level dungeon, some weeks ago, with a 50+ WHM that let the tank die. Several times. They healed only, but were mentally present to the game, based on their movements and reactions during the fights. They'd wait till the tank was at 25% hp before casting a cure.
Being synced was no excuse for a level 20ish dungeon when I've had tanks do 'ohshit' pulls without a single death while I was on a low level conjurer via an alt character........ doing the exact same behavior as my main character's WHM. DPSing and Healing.
</ramble>

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

ITT: Scrub healers complaining because tanks actually wanting to get a cure every so often.

[AzureFlare]

ITT: Scrub healers complaining because tanks actually wanting to get a cure every so often.

ITT: Tanks with insecurity problems coming in and asking why their healers don't love them anymore because they aren't healed every 3 seconds.

Hint: We still do, but we do the loving after the battle, not during.